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Annual complaining about minutes thread

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by snowconeman22, Nov 25, 2019.

  1. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    Well it’s about that time

    We are what ? 1/5th 1/4th of the way into the season ?

    Harden’s averaging 37 mpg and PJ is at 35.

    It’s not so much the averages that bother me , but how you get to them. After all , it’s a probably a small difference between playing 37 mpg and 34.

    What really bugs me is when James plays 35+ minutes in blowout wins. Or when we play him entire halves in order to try and claw back in games . This absolves the bench of responsibility and opportunity.

    I’m more worried about PJ than James . He’s 34 , the key to our defense , and our only good option at the 4 .... yet we are playing him the most minutes of his career.

    I’ve heard many arguments downplaying MDA’s classically short rotations (tho most of CF probably wishes he would expand them) let me address a few common ones .

    1) we don’t practice that much and so the load is managed .

    - I can’t argue this from a load managing perspective , it’s true that we should be looking at the TOTAL stress and strain on guys and practice is a part of that . That being said , I would gander that our lack of practice and system outside of “give the ball to James” is a big reason we fall apart when he’s not on the floor .

    2) playing your best players more minutes wins games

    - once again this is true . But winning the most games in the regular season should not be the goal. If you wanna play james 40mpg in the playoffs to win a game , that’s OK with me . But , that strategy should be used sparingly in the regular season. The idea that if he doesn’t play those minutes in the regular season , he won’t be conditioned for the playoffs is asinine.

    3) we don’t have any other talent

    - this is probably partially true . But , once again you aren’t going to go 82-0. You can’t tell me that we don’t have talent if A) we don’t have a lot of practice time and B) they never get in games . How are guys that aren’t in the rotation supposed to develop . Our idea here so far is to just have them practice their 3’s ?

    Common sense would say , “oh they will get a chance to step up when there are injuries” but we see that isn’t always the case , more often than not MDA will just opt to constrict the rotation.
     
  2. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    The problem is:
    1. PJ is not our only good option at the 4 . . .he is the only option DanAndTony will try
    We should definitely put Harty at the 4 for some minutes
    2. Take Harden out of blow out wins. . . .and he might have to come in cold in the last minute to win the game
    Watching leads EVAPORATE in minutes is unreal
    HArden gets us back to within 5. . . boom explodes to 20 if he is not super human

    Rocket River
     
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  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    we need a daily complaining about minutes thread
     
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  4. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    I agree with the blowouts comment . I do think MDA has gotten better about this (he used to leave harden in until 1 min left now he pulls him with 2:30)

    But it still speaks to a larger part about how we’ve failed to develop any system outside of “give James the ball”

    It seems part of our load management strategy is to reduce practices , but practices allow role players and younger guys the opportunity to make an impression , they also solidify your team’s ability to take on a “next man up mindset”

    We send all of our young talent to the g-league because DM knows if they aren’t in the rotation then they aren’t getting much on-court experience.

    I think our reliance on harden has stunted his development in some ways . We don’t want to move him off-ball because the stats say that’s less efficient. But , what’s efficient over the long haul may not the be the best strategy for every situation.

    We all bash mchale , but he knew that getting harden the ball off the catch with some downhill momentum is terrifying for defenses (even if it’s not beyond the arc)

    We have had CP3 and now WB and yet we don’t take the ball out of James hands . That might be correct , statistically. But there are so many other factors to account for. As much pressure as James puts on the defense when he’s handling , off ball you can’t leave him open and he’s a threat to blow by you and score / dish if you don’t close out under control. Furthermore, you can’t set up the defense to key on James and ignore the other all-star pg that has the rock. It also might allow him to save energy to use on defense
     
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  5. FrontRunner

    FrontRunner Member

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    I think people make too much of this. Not that many years ago it was routine for guys to play around 40 minutes a night. Today's players play fewer minutes, play in far fewer back-to-backs, and they recover faster thanks to advances in medical science, nutrition, training, etc.

    Harden's actually looked better overall in the playoffs the last couple seasons thanks in part to more regular season minutes and conditioning, IMHO. Guys like Clint and Westbrook need to be subbed out more often because of their bodies and the way they play, but I honestly think the coaching staff has done fine there.

    I worry also seeing the starters playing late in the game in a blowout and want to see the young guys get a chance to play and develop. But, right now especially, Westbrook and this group needs to develop some chemistry and the only way to do that is to play.

    One could make an argument for cutting back minutes due to the increased pace but, again, the Rockets are in a dogfight for playoff seeding and they're far from playing like they're going to have to play to get very far in the playoffs.

    At the same time, if we (and I'm not picking on you) complain about this long enough, someone's going to get hurt eventually and then we can say I told you so. ;)
     
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  6. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    @FrontRunner

    I think it’s different from the past where everyone was playing 40 mpg

    Now , if you play 40mpg , when the playoffs roll around you will face stars that have taken games off to be fresh .

    It’s a comparative disadvantage
     
  7. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Honestly it is not a EITHER OR situation
    I am good with Harden having the ball in his hands
    Maybe at 75% or less.

    McHale ball was not winning at the same clip

    Our offense reminds me of the run and shoot in football
    It was INCREDIBLY effective. . .the problem was they ran it 24/7
    It sucked on the goal line and short yardage . . . .. . .
    We would have won the superbowl if we ran it like 75% of the time. . .and 25% of time put in a tight end

    The DanAndToni offense is winning offense but
    They need to be some modifications and some times to run something else

    It is the same as the 3's and lay ups
    75% of the time is good enough . . .hell 90% . . .. but there are simply some times we have to do something different

    Rocket River
     
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  8. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Is there any evidence that load management actually works from a scientific perspective?
     
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  9. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Not enough information

    but I think there is more than enough information
    that playing younger players in games 1-50 pays off in games 51 and beyond

    Rocket River
     
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  10. FrontRunner

    FrontRunner Member

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    You have a point. It worked for guys like Lebron and Kawhi recently. But guys like Harden and PJ I don't think you need to worry so much about when you factor in their build, age and injury history.

    I can't say you're wrong either. But I blame the owner and front office for not bringing in more guys that can play. Right now we have one of the greatest players in NBA history in his prime, but to win as constructed we'll have to ride him (and PJ) until the wheels fall off.
     
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