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[Souces] We're not going to win the championship...Blow it up

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by bleedroxred79, Oct 18, 2020.

  1. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    John is too proud and old to strip naked, do those shenanigans. ;)
     
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  2. RocketsFido

    RocketsFido Member

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    Multiple Sauces Thread

    Also, with the way we're trending, we'll be fighting for the 6-7 seed next year.

    Don't forget the Mavs are trending upwards too.

    People in this thread comparing Harden to Hakeem is a joke and honestly disrespectful to the Rockets GOAT.

    If the 80's were like this era, Hakeem would've long abandoned the franchise which kept making **** moves for better pasture. If Hakeem played for this front office under Morey, we would've won a ring by now and would not be forced to decide if we should trade him or not because he would have our ultimate loyalty.

    Harden on the other hand, yes he lost to the "greatest team of all time" but don't tell me he didn't disappear against other playoff teams in the past. We saw him gave up multiple times in the playoffs against non-Warrior teams and also, he has never led us to the finals meanwhile he's getting paid the supermax year in and out. He previously clashed with his co-stars (Dwight, Cp3) instead of working it out and now he's with his best buddy who he begged Tilman to trade for, instead of working it out, in his exit interview he said it's the front office job to add another star to this team. With what salary cap and picks Mr. Harden?
     
    #42 RocketsFido, Oct 20, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
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  3. Bo6

    Bo6 Member

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    nah i want to see harden for at least 1 more season.
     
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  4. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    You are right, you are not a troll.

    You are deranged.

    Harden is much better player than Lilliard.

    More playoff wins, more MVP votes, top 5 player.
     
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  5. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    What evidence do you have of that? Is it the fact that he has put up some of the best overall impact stats of any player in NBA history? (PER, BPM, RPM, VORP, WS, WS/48) And he hasn't been significantly worse in those stats in the playoffs, either (especially the last two years). Is it the fact that he has turned players that other superstars could barely make the playoffs with into contenders? (Dwight Coward, Ryno+Gordon) Is it the fact that he has won every single playoff series that his team was expected to win?

    No? So it's based on the same vapid platitudes that talking heads keep spewing without any actual data or meaningful evidence?
     
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  6. GreatOne1978

    GreatOne1978 Member

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    Rockets have a lot of work to do this offseason. Back to the drawing board
     
    #46 GreatOne1978, Oct 20, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
  7. bmelo

    bmelo Member

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    because i watch basketball for 20 years and I dont need numbers to see that MJ, LeBron, Duncan etc are top of the top. I dont see it with Harden especialy on the bbiq side under pressure. You just cant stand still at halfcourt on offense when you dont have the ball and call yourself the best. You cant be able only to play post defense on small power forwards and call yourself great defender. Stats may show some things because of systems teams run putting players in favorable positions where they are their best but true top alltime players create situations. How many times you seen James take stepback three hunting for foul in crucial playoff time? This are the type of moments where he should dominate someone and not cry about double/touchy fouls/quit because play isnt for him. Can you imagine Jordan getting blocked by Ginobli on game winner? Which another player of that label will let his team miss 27 straight threes in game 7? They were missing them because thats what system is about and James is the system. Take away something from the system and he is off his normal performance and i seen it time and time again
     
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  8. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    Ah, so just the same innocuous, unsubstantiated fluff we've seen a thousand times.

    Those moments you speak of were never why we lost, and people forget all the moments he came up big for us after we finally get eliminated (such as the last few minutes of game 7 this year -- including more than just the block, and almost every game against the Warriors last year).

    And the Rockets were missing those threes for three reasons: 1) they had an extremely short-handed six-man rotation trying to defend the greatest offensive team of all time on one end AND trying to score against a very good defensive team on the other end, 2) Scott Foster, and 3) luck of the draw. Harden didn't "let them" miss 27 threes lol. The fact that we played good enough defense to almost beat the most imbalanced, stacked team of all time WITHOUT our 2nd best player is impressive as hell. But all you remember is that we lost.

    There is no one you could replace Harden with on this year's Rockets that would get us past these Lakers or those Warriors. Maybe a prime LeBron or Jordan gets us an extra win or two this year, but that's about it. Tuck at center and and Westbrook bricking open 3s? No, you're not winning with that. That's not on James Harden. You, like so many others, do not understand or appreciate his game.

    And yes, you DO need numbers to understand anything. Otherwise all you have are your feelings. Feelings lie. Numbers do not. And numbers are ultimately what determines who wins and who loses.
     
  9. bmelo

    bmelo Member

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    Do you think Phil Jackson, Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Shaq, Steph used algorhythms to win? See this is the problem. They just play and pick the best option and ball dont lie - better team wins

    the funny thing is i am backend programmer and i really dont believe it. I think numbers in sports are like bikini - they show you almost everything except most important thing
     
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  10. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    I absolutely know they do, yes. Especially more recently.

    The other very important thing to note is that every single one of the players you mentioned has succeeded in ways that all the analytics can verify. All of these guys were measurably efficient, high-impact, winning players. PER, WS, BPM, TS%, etc... they demonstrate the greatness as much as anything, but stubborn boomers won't believe any of those numbers until a title accompanies them, which is absolute foolishness. Because again: Championships are team accomplishments, not individual ones. And guess what: Harden is as good as any of those players in those same stats. Problem is, no matter how good Harden (or anyone) is, he needs a good team around him to go all the way. Westbrook+Tucker just does not stack up to Wade+Bosh, or Durant+Klay+Dray, or prime Kobe, etc.

    Like you honestly think someone like Curry is better than Harden just because he has rings? You don't think Kevin Durant + Klay + Dray, or injury luck played a role in that?

    Obviously stats don't tell you the full story [yet], but they tell you a whole lot more than your "gut" does, or your eye test does, or your silly anecdotes about step back jumpers. "Guts" have been proven wrong so so so many times. I remember when people called guys like Dirk and LeBron "chokers" after a few disappointing playoffs...
     
  11. hakeemthagreat

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    Correction. Hardens a better regular season player. That's pretty much it
     
  12. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    Lillard has been out of the first round a grand total of twice in his career, and made the WCF once (and never even came close other years)... But he makes a couple 3s in some close games against mostly garbage teams, and he's Jordan? OK.

    Lilly isn't on the same planet as Harden. Regular season OR playoffs. On either end of the floor.

    It's absolutely absurd to give Harden the blame for our shortcomings any of the last five seasons.
     
    #52 SuperMarioBro, Oct 21, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
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  13. hakeemthagreat

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    Stop it. Portland hasn't had the teams to make any real playoff runs, and you know that. Plus Dort isnt shutting down Damian Lillard in a playoff series.

    Harden not to blame for our playoff exits? 13 turnovers vs GS. Game 6 vs SA? The comeback game vs the LAC where he was BENCHED. Really????
     
  14. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    It wouldn't matter - does anyone trust Tillman to trade away Harden & WB and rebuild this franchise properly?
     
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  15. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    Wait, are you suggesting it takes more than just one player to win playoff games? So we shouldn't give the best player on any team all of the credit or blame for their accomplishments and failures? Are you saying maybe we should look a little deeper than that? Hmm... I dunno about that man, I might have to stew on that one for a bit...
     
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  16. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    Think you edited in the last part (or I missed it), but I'll give you game six against SA. That was the most inexplicably horrendous performance Harden has ever had, and I can't explain it or defend it. The GS game was bad, but not on the same level. Even LeBron has had 10+ TO games in the playoffs. But those are two games, and both in series that the Rockets were never supposed to win. We only ever even had a chance because Harden was on our team. Remember when people said LeBron wasn't a playoff performer after the 2011 Finals? Good times.

    Also while I'm here, I didn't realize putting up 30 ppg, 8 apg, 6 rpg, 3 topg on 62% TS% (with a series-leading 24 Game Score) was considered getting "shut down". I'm learning so much here... All of those numbers, by the way, are far better than anything Lilly has ever put up in the playoffs, as are Harden's numbers almost COMPLETELY across the board in almost every single playoffs, not to mention how much better of a defender Harden is. But due to selection bias, you only remember the bad games Harden has and the big 3s Lillard makes.

    You also forget when Harden DOES have series clinching play...


    You can only win so many games with a fresh-from-injury (and always overrated) Westbrick, a 6'5" center, your third-option "sharp shooter" shooting 20% from 3, and your next best player deciding to get his dick wet rather than do the job he's paid millions to do. The things Harden accomplished with Dwight Coward, then Ryno+Gordon, then Chris Paul, and then Westbroke... Nothing short of amazing.
     
    #56 SuperMarioBro, Oct 21, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
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  17. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    lol poor comparison..
     
  18. don grahamleone

    don grahamleone Contributing Member

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    lol short post..
     
  19. Doctor Robert

    Doctor Robert Contributing Member

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    Unfortunately, Hakeem had zero self-awareness. He also thought Dwight Howard needed to be like him, which was totally baffling. He couldn't comprehend any other style of play other than the one that won a championship here. He definitely could have been a highly productive player had he been coached better and had the ability to reflect on how he could best help a team (see Tim Duncan).

    Loyalty is a separate issue.
     

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