False. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. If you want athletes to meet a challenge, then you should have an issue with the ones who never have to face the type of challenges you are referring to. Again, Magic went to the Lakers who had the best player on Earth and won instantly. Where is the challenge in that? If you don't have an issue with him playing his entire career with great help simply because he went to the right team then you really aren't "about the challenge". No, that's what you want the control to be about. Players fought for free agency so they could decide where to work, like any other person.
That is so true. Cavaliers was a lottery team when LeBron came back, Lakers was a lottery team when Lebron joined 2 seasons ago.
The Cavaliers that he joined were not the lottery team of the year before. The main addition was Kevin Love, but there were also a handful of LeBron acolytes that joined as well. On the other hand, the Lakers were pretty much the same. No big addition besides LeBron, but they remained a lottery team. Not to you, deshen, but in general, I do agree that it was ultimately a good thing that he did taking away the stigma players had to deal with when they exercised their free agency. He showed players that it was okay to bet on yourself and allow your contract to expire. That is one part of his legacy that I think needs to be played up more. But it's not always what you do, it's how you do it. And the way he left teams was always messy and dramatic. For example, the first time he left Cleveland was after a terrible individual performance from him against the Celtics. When he left Miami he betrayed a supposed good friend in Dwyane Wade and left again after a sub-par individual performance (by his own standard) against the Spurs. The second time he left Cleveland was after the Kyrie mess and he left the team with a handful of ridiculous contracts handed out to mostly Klutch clients. Of course, the 2016 comeback title helps soothe the wounds of that exit. Finally, even the transition from his 1st to 2nd year as a Laker further shows how chaos and drama always surround him.
Lebron is just a player man why is it his responsibility to keep his cores? It's the team's responsibility to keep their cores you are confusing team with individual. At the end of the day whether he leaves or stays Lebron is really only responsible for himself why should he be held accountable for not making Dwade younger or keeping Irving from going crazy? MJ never had to deal with any GM responsibilities he just played his game and the GM surrounded him with HOF players and a HOF coach. Nobody seems to take issue or give him negative points for having everything handed to him in a silver platter but somehow it's Lebron's job to make and keep a powerhouse team without leaving his original team lol. You are right having 2 of the top 5 players or 3 of the top 10 players does make you extremely dominant. So what does that say for MJ who always had Rodman for 3 of his rings and Pippen for all of his 6? You think its easier or harder to keep making new teams or just stick with your ridiculously stacked team for all of your rings? Lebron "bailing" on his team is neither positive or negative, it's just within his right to do that the same way teams trade players all the time. You know the Boston Celtics tanked a lot then traded a bunch of assets+Al Jefferson to get KG. Is that a positive thing or negative thing? They bailed on Al Jefferson and betrayed him for KG and Ray Allen, why couldn't they stick with the dude they drafted? Is trading players to get better players bad? If it isn't frowned upon then Lebron leaving and making a new power team shouldn't be seen as bad as well, you get the same effect. The only time it would be bad is if the team is already a power house and you coming there just destroys the balance like KD joining an already Championship team. Miami heat before Lebron: 1st round fodder Cavs before Lebron: Top 3 worst team in the L Lakers before Lebron: Top 3 worst team in the West Every single team Lebron has gone to has been a scrub team before he made it to a championship contender. That's a major positive spin and def a bigger challenge than watching your GM surround you with HOF teammates and riding it out to a championship year after year. Just use simple logic bro. Apply the same standards to all the players if you are gonna blast Lebron for leaving and making championship teams then blast MJ for having everything handed to him on a silver platter. It's like you are saying Cuban is worse than Jef Bezos' heir cuz the heir inherited his billions while Cuban is a self-made billionaire. It's literally backwards. PS: Lebron is prob on his last team. He won't be leaving the Lakers and will ride AD till their window closes. So once he starts collecting rings with AD you should now give him props for keeping the Lakers core cuz that's apparently harder than making new teams from scratch every time.
Every superstar always has chaos and drama, Lebron's the biggest superstar so he will have the biggest drama and chaos no matter what he does. Media follows him everywhere and exaggerates everything what do you expect? Did you watch the Last Dance? The things MJ did is a lot more chaotic and dramatic than anything Lebron has done. MJ wasn't exactly a great teammate. He kept grudges on his teammates, denied them food after a bad game, blasted snitches, said their locker room was full of weed and cocaine and most famously he pulled all the strings to keep Isiah Thomas from the Dream Team. The difference is Social Media and the internet wasn't as developed or basically even existed back then. If any of that **** happened today there would be a lot more drama and chaos than anything Lebron has ever done. I just don't like all this double standard happening. If MJ was the perfect player then fine you can blame and blast Lebron all you want. But the things most people blame Lebron for they don't even apply to MJ so that's why there's always a huge bias for Jordan. Like bailing on a team is bad but retiring 3 times doesn't count as bailing lol what is up with that.
The media covers up for LeBron more than they have for anyone that I remember. Everything that he does or says is spun in the positive by most of the media. Even his most ardent "haters" like Skip Bayless have to hold back on some criticisms. They also have to just sit there and watch people like Shannon Sharpe and Kendrick Perkins deify LeBron on the daily. Do you really believe that those things Jordan did were more chaotic? Grudges on teammates? So? Not everyone gets along. Did that ever lead to ANY teammate ever requesting a trade? I don't KNOW if they never did, but we know Kyrie Irving requested a trade after he found out that LeBron tried to get him traded for Eric Bledsoe and another time for Paul George. Recently, LeBron spoke of jealousy in regards to his partnership with Anthony Davis I think in an attempt to throw shade back at Kyrie for what he said on Durant's podcast. He never mentioned Kyrie by name, but it was obviously directed at Kyrie. The media's reaction was a lot different. If they were fair they would have criticized both because they are both right and wrong when you analyze what they each said and their history. Denied them food? Horace Grant still got to eat and he still played an important role in that first three-peat team. We don't know this, but there is a chance that non-Klutch clients were denied contracts. At the very least, we can say that paying his clients kept the Cavaliers from paying others. Didn't that keep players from eating more than Jordan talking **** about Grant on a team flight? Blasted snitches? So? The Last Dance was released almost 30 years after the fact and he was probably right in pointing to HO Grant. Didn't affect the team either way. Did it? Same with REPEATING what EVERYONE knew of those 80s Bulls teams. We can say that of most of the 80's NBA including the Rockets of that era that were ruined by cocaine. He didn't have to say any of it, I get that, those dudes have families, but in regards to team drama, those teams don't exist anymore. At the end of the day, all that conflict he started within the team remained within the team until after the fact and the conflict probably had a positive effect on the performance of the team and his own performance. On the other hand, LeBron's drama hurt the team and hurt him as well. As far as the Isaiah Thomas thing, it seemed like nobody, not even his coach, stuck up for him. Thomas would have been on the team if Jordan wanted him there, that's true, he held the last word, but he wasn't the only one who didn't like Isaiah Thomas. Either way, he could have been a b**** about Isaiah Thomas and his drama still wouldn't approach LeBron level drama. On a personality level, Jordan was a private person who could control himself and his surroundings, while LeBron is a person who loves drama and literally admitted to needing chaos around him to thrive. Makes sense, Jordan was raised in an orderly, structured household while LeBron was raised in absolute chaos. The social media thing is a double-edged sword. Yes, things Jordan did would have been magnified, but he also would have a legion of supporters and probably people covering and scrubbing his tracks just as LeBron does. Uber talented people like them usually do. Also, as I said, Jordan was a private person who didn't like to draw unnecessary attention to himself. Out of those three retirements, he probably only bailed on the team once. That was the 93 retirement, but we don't know why he did it. Could have been his father's death, could have been a secret suspension, could have been fatigue, could have been his desire to play baseball, could have been a combination of those factors, who knows. The 98 retirement was due to the Bull's organization not wanting to keep the team together, that's what The Last Dance proved. And the Wizards' retirement, really? But really retirements =/= switching teams.
JumpMan, you need to look at things from another angle. Heat, Cavaliers won because they had LeBron. The reason those teams were bad before and after wasn't because Lebron made them bad, they were bad only because they didn't have LeBron in their team. That is exactly the reason why he is one of the all time. Are those teams and their players happy about what they did to win champions? yes and they are proud of it, Given the same situation, would Rockets or any NBA teams do the same thing again to win title, yes.
Read the first sentence again, and read your entire post. Unbelievable. You spent your entire post downplaying everything MJ did and blowing up Lebron's "issues" lol. Ostracizing Isiah Thomas doesn't count cuz MJ wasn't the only one who hated him but Lebron made people hungry cuz the Cavs had to overpay Klutch clients lol. You are talking about chaos and drama right? Isiah Thomas is an all star and who wanted to represent the US which do you think is more dramatic and chaotic a conspiracy that involved a superstar and majority of the superstars in the NBA or a hypothetical scrub that you don't even know exists that didn't get a contract cuz the Cavs gave Tristan Thompson the max? You are right, people do deify Lebron. That's cuz he is a great player. But you are doing the same to MJ so how is that any different? If you want to be honest then both are deified by the media so why does that matter? Lots of media say nobody can ever beat MJ so isn't that deifying him as well? Or is it ok to deify MJ but its not ok to do the same for Lebron? Realistically its been 40 years since the 80s, the difference between Lebron and MJ is greater than the difference between MJ and Russell. Think of all the reasons why Russell isn't the GOAT despite having 2x more rings than MJ and then apply that same logic to Lebron and MJ. It's the same thing but the fact that people always think MJ is unbeatable shows how deified he really is. On Kyrie Irving and Lebron, they aren't both right and wrong, Lebron is 100% right and Irving is 100% wrong. Irving hasn't done jack squat before and after Lebron so why is he right? LOL! Dude has been a cancer everywhere on the Cavs, Celts and even the Nets performed better once he left. Why will the media take his side when he has been a locker room cancer and achieved nothing since leaving Lebron? You make zero sense. Just cuz somebody criticizes Lebron doesn't mean that dude is correct. What did Irving prove exactly? On the Cavs pre Lebron his team always picked in the lotto, and the teams that he joined Nets and Boston played better when he wasn't around. Why is he proof of Lebron having chaos? LOL. 9 straight Finals appearances is the opposite of Chaos. Retiring multiple times is a lot more chaotic and that's just a fact. MJ didn't like to draw attention to himself so why did he make himself the face of Nike? Why did he star in Space Jam? Why did he even release Last Dance? Is that the actions of a private person? C'mon man you accuse media of deifying Lebron but you are doing the same to Jordan. Private person but releases his own documentary on Netflix ok bro. Dude retired 3 times and released all that stories of his dad wanting him to play bball, gave so many quotable quotes like "I wouldn't be friends with Bird or Magic, I'd beat them" etc but he hates the spotlight. MJ hates the spotlight so much he only starred in a movie but man, does he hate that spotlight. OK so Jordan only bailed on the team "once". So why did you say Jordan never bailed on his team the way Lebron does? They did the same thing. So basically you are lying when you said MJ never bailed on his team do you realize that? MJ never bailed on his team like Lebron but he bailed once. Ok dude. And then he bailed/retired on 98 because the Bulls didn't want to keep a power team together. Didn't your original post say MJ never bails on his teams and makes them strong unlike Lebron? So why didn't MJ stay and make the Bulls team strong then? So basically MJ never bails on his team unlike Lebron except when he bails on his team twice. It's ok for MJ to leave the Bulls when they are weak but its not ok for Lebron to leave his team when they are weak. It's ok for Jordan to leave his team due to fatigue, his team being weak, his father dying or basically any other reason but its not ok for Lebron to leave his team for any reason whatsoever. You need to apply the same standards for both and then you'll see why the dude who plays vs better competition while having more years as a superstar is the superior player.
What does Isaiah Thomas have to do with the Bulls? The Klutch clients had everything to do with the Cavaliers and Lakers. I mean, I conceded the point that Jordan could have been a b**** in regards to Thomas. Oh well, didn't cause any drama on the Bulls, which was my point. The media has gone after Jordan. There were hit piece books dedicated to going after Jordan. Jordan Rules was written and released during his career. Show me the hit pieces written against LeBron. The truth is the media protects LeBron more than anyone possibly ever. Especially now that the sport's media has a heavy liberal slant and LeBron is the most loyal liberal. Jordan just had the performances, the image, the persona, and the cult of personality that were strong enough to sustain the scrutiny of his failures and shortcomings as a person. LeBron doesn't have any of that at the level Jordan did so the media has to insulate him. At least for now. As I said, analyze their statements and their history. Kyrie Irving is obviously far from the player LeBron is so his success in the NBA will be a lot less than LeBron's. However, Kyrie was right to imply that he was better in the clutch than LeBron, but he shouldn't have said it. It must kill LeBron that Kyrie has that game 7 shot to hold over him and add validity to unnecessary and semi-invalid statements like the one Kyrie made about taking last shots. LeBron was right to imply that Kyrie was jealous of him, but LeBron was not blameless in their relationship and I believe he was also jealous of Kyrie. They both need to move on. It's as if they're ex-lovers that can't get over each other. All of that is BUSINESS. (Every one of those things LeBron has attempted to copy, BTW.) LeBron was ridiculously reading Malcolm X while Anthony Davis was being interviewed after the biggest game of his career. Coincidentally, LeBron had scored 10 points in that same game. That is the type of attention-seeking behavior I am referring to. He's lucky Davis is such a fanboy of his that he would never say anything against him. At least for now. And that was just his most recent unnecessary cry for attention. The fact that Jordan waited so long to release that documentary is proof that he doesn't need the spotlight. LeBron couldn't even wait until the doc finished airing to announce that he would make his own documentary. I don't know where to take this part of the discussion. I can't see similarities between Jordan's retirements and LeBron switching teams. In my original post, I never even mentioned Jordan nor did I reply to anything about Jordan. All I said was that it was a good thing for NBA players that LeBron started switching teams by exercising his free-agency, but that the way did it was sometimes questionable. In my reply to you, I shared my view of Jordan's retirements and how they are different than LeBron switching teams. In regards to this, it's just not the same. Jordan didn't retire in 93 to join the Rockets. When he returned in 95, he returned to a weaker team than he left. He didn't retire in 98 to join the Lakers. He came back to the Wizards because he thought it'd lead to him owning the team. He then retired once and for good. LeBron left his teams after losses and sub-par performances and betrayals and drama.
Leaving the court with 10 seconds of game time still left to play after getting embarrassed by Jimmy Buckets and some third stringers? That's pretty bad.
Yeah, the refs had to call them back to the court to inbound the ball with 0.7 seconds left. That's pretty embarrassing.
I mean MJ couldn't make up his mind and retired 3 times. I think that's a lot more embarrassing. If Lebron or basically anyone else retired to play another sport, sucked and came back to the NBA pretty sure everyone would crucify him but since it's MJ that's ok.
Your original point says that Lebron just causes drama and chaos. If you are gonna say it has to do with the Bulls then Kyrie Irving wasn't part of the Cavs anymore and Lebron left his old team so he didn't cause any drama or chaos either. When drama happened in Miami for example he was already back in Cleveland so why are you still blaming him? Lebron doesn't cause drama on his current teams that's why he has the most Finals appearances in recent NBA history, his team almost always gets to the last step before superior talent on the opposite side beats them, in the same way Jordan got beat multiple times by the Bad Boy Pistons before he got Pippen, Rodman, Phil Jackson and co. Lakers only won a championship this year thanks to AD so if you are saying "drama and chaos" is supposed to hurt the team why did they win a title this year thanks to Klutch Sports? Or you thinK Brandon Ingram and Lonzo Ball woulda put the Lakers over the top? Cleveland only reached the playoffs when Lebron is there so you think they missed all that "drama and chaos" or not? Jordan Rules is a hit piece? "The Jordan Rules were a successful defensive basketball strategy employed by the Detroit Pistons against Michael Jordan in order to limit his effectiveness on the game." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Rules Bruh you think that's a hit piece? If anything it glorifies Jordan, he needs to have a special set of rules guarding him cuz he is so unstoppable but that's a hit piece to you? Lebron has had lots of hit pieces on him over the years, you got people burning his jerseys when he made The Decision and people mocking him after he lost to the Dallas Mavs. He also got snubbed the MVP multiple times like when they awarded Derrick Rose MVP over him and some media voter denied him the unanimous MVP award by voting Carmelo Anthony over him. If the media hated MJ so much who voted clearly inferior players to Jordan for the MVP during his height? Jordan is crowned the GOAT by media you think they hate MJ? Bruh. https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/...good-reason/Yo08ZgzGaxzlt9KF0JDfqM/story.html Book? You gotta get with the time man, nobody reads books nowadays just watch Skip Bayless for a professional Lebron hater. Stephen A Smith is on record saying nothing Lebron can do will make him greater than Jordan. Paul Pierce said Lebron isn't even on his Top 10 of all time list. All these guys are literally MEDIA where are your Jordan hitpieces? Jordan Rules that's the best you can say? C'mon man. Irving isn't better in the Clutch than Lebron. Clutch implies winning right? Can you be a clutch player if you lose more times than you win? Irving has been the leader for so many top lotto picks he is career loser. How the hell is he clutch? If you wanna talk just dumb numbers then Lebron has Clutch stats of 46%, Irving has Clutch stats of 43%. In an even more analytics metric Irving is 9th most clutch in current players in the NBA, while Lebron is 2nd. Can you show me any list that has Irving over Lebron in terms of clutch? Sure Irving has that game 7 shot so what Steve Kerr and Tony Kukoc have several game winning shots over Jordan in the playoffs as well do they hold that over Jordan? Just like what I'm saying just use the same standard for both players man. It's not like MJ hit all the game winners in his entire career so whys that supposed to eat up Lebron inside and make him jealous of Irving? Dude has 4 rings, 4 MVPs the only success Irving has had is while playing with him why would he be jealous? https://hoopshype.com/2020/03/26/nba-clutch-stats/#slideIdslide-22 https://www.nbcsports.com/national/lebron-james-jimmy-butler-among-10-most-clutch-players-nba Just because you believe that doesn't mean it's true. You know what I believe Jordan is jealous of Lebron. He needs to move on MJ is like an ex-lover that can't get over the fact that Lebron will surpass him when he retires. See it just makes 0 sense when you go off rants on **** you have no evidence of. I never denied Lebron is a media hog and attention seeker, that's part of the reason he went to LA. In high school he already called himself the CHOSEN ONE, that says all you need to know about his personality. But Lebron never pretended to be a shy, humble and private person in the first place. You are the one who said MJ is a private person who hates the spotlight. Do you admit that's just MJ Kool Aid? Bruh the dude released a documentary about himself doesn't matter if its for business a person who hates the spotlight would never do that. He even did a farewell tour his last year in the NBA you think he hates the spotlight? Tim Duncan hated the spotlight, one of the best ever didn't do a farewell tour and didn't star in any movies either. Dirk? Haven't seen him since he retired the first time. MJ came back to the league a 3rd time just to have a farewell tour and acted on a movie with Daffy Duck and Bugs Bunny but he is a private person and hates the spotlight. Bruh. Your original post said MJ and Kobe never left their teams or demanded a trade, they stayed and made their team great. Sure Jordan didn't join other teams, but he still left his team and abandoned it. Leaving the team to retire or leaving the team to join another team, that's still leaving/abandoning the team in the end. After he left the 2nd time the Bulls disintegrated and became crap which is what you are accusing to Lebron. If Lebron is to be blamed for Heat and Cavs becoming trash after he left then why isn't Jordan to be blamed for the Bulls sucking when he left the 2nd time? Your statements are just objectively false MJ abandoned his team multiple times the same way Lebron did. We all have our bias, I think MJ is extremely overrated and obv from your name alone you are a die hard MJ fan, Lebron can prob win 10 titles and you'll still think MJ is better. But just try to apply the same standards for both players don't criticize Lebron for one thing and then gloss over MJ for the other.
LeBron and Irving had drama while they were teammates. LOTS OF IT. Lebron, I mean, the Cavs attempted to trade Irving even after winning the championship. Kyrie wanted out at that time as well. He eventually demanded a trade because of the drama with LeBron. All I said about Miami was that the Heat felt betrayed, even Wade did, and LeBron played sub-par in the Finals prior to leaving. He has the most Finals appearances because he played in the East. LeBron got beat by Dwight Howard and an aging Celtics team. I want to say the Cavs were favored in both series as well. The Jordan Rules was a defensive strategy AND a book. That book was the first to expose Jordan's ******* tendencies. There were also books about Jordan's gambling and speculation on his father's death related to his gambling. If I'm not mistaken, there were also stories or books about his extramarital affairs. Not too sure about the last one, though, maybe they were just rumors that no journalist wanted to put their name on. All of those reactions by fans were appropriate. The Decision was a mistake. His becoming a villain in reaction to the backlash was a mistake. His play against the Mavs was the worst performance by any GOAT candidate on a big stage. I'm not about to go through every Jordan MVP season voting, the important thing is that he won and when he lost, like against Barkley and Malone, it was fair because they won more games in the regular season. He was better than both of them, but they had better seasons. Oh well. Just like Derrick Rose won more games during his MVP season. Just like Giannis won this year's MVP because he had a better season even though he also isn't the player LeBron is. Oh well, that's how MVP voting goes. Jordan played in a time where book reading, not pretend reading as LeBron does, was important. Skip Bayless is truly the only LeBron hater left. The next person I could think of is Rob Parker. That's about it. Stephen A saying LeBron can't do anything to catch Jordan is hyperbole, but he's basically saying LeBron missed his chance. He's saying he doesn't care about longevity accomplishments. At their bests, he believes Jordan was better and since LeBron has left his best behind... As far as the Jordan haters, well, you have Shannon Sharpe-James, Nick Wright-James, Kendrick Perkins-James... They're more loyal to LeBron than his own wife. Kyrie isn't good enough to put his teams in the position to win as much as superstars like LeBron or the other superstars in the NBA, but if there is a chance to win, he usually performs in the clutch. Who is more clutch? Who knows. In my opinion, LeBron's clutch stats are good in terms of percentages because he controls which shots his teams will take and will usually pass if the option is for him to take a bad shot or a teammate to take a better shot. Players like Kyrie prefer to take a bad shot because they think it's a better shot than an open shot of a role-playing teammate. I agree. Then, LeBron has counting clutch stats because he can keep most games close on his own, he's played so many games, and has been involved in so many clutch situations. So again, not sure who's more clutch. What do you mean by several game-winning shots for Kukoc and Kerr? I know Kukoc has that famous shot against the Knicks, but Jordan was retired. Kerr has the shot against Utah. I do agree they were clutch, in general, just don't remember so many game-winning shots. LeBron once said meeting Jordan was like meeting God. I would love to be able to know his true thoughts, conscious and subconscious, about Jordan, but all I could do is speculate. I believe that LeBron holds Jordan as his central father figure and that he simultaneously loves and hates him. Loves him enough to want to be like him and idolize him, but hates him so much he is obsessed with being better than him. If Jordan would just recognize LeBron as his better, LeBron would probably retire. Crazy speculation, I know. I think there's a difference between seeking the spotlight, like LeBron does, and drawing the spotlight as Jordan does. In my original post, I never mentioned anyone but LeBron. I especially never talked about Kobe. All I said about LeBron was that he left teams in dramatic and chaotic circumstances and after sub-par playoff performances. We'll just have to move on from comparing Jordan's retirements to LeBron team switching. Naw, LeBron would be better with 10 championships, but he wouldn't be better than Bill Russell.
It's official AFAIC. LeBron = GOAT I remember how much everyone was sh!tting on the Lakers before the season started, talking about clashing egos, and injury problems, and overrated talent... Now those people wanna pretend they had overwhelming talent, and anything less than a title would have been a disappointment. This team was pretty bad outside of the top two guys, and LeBron once again carried them by finals time. Also I think, if anything, the circumstances this year are an anti-asterisk for the Lakers. The top seeds are the ones that got screwed most by the bubble because HCA, what they fought for all season, was meaningless in the playoffs. Probably related to why all the other top two seeds flopped so early. ... Of course, being this year's media darling, they got the same level of help from the refs that you can expect for these big market teams, but that's not anything exclusive to LeBron.
