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Election 2020

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by TheresTheDagger, May 13, 2020.

  1. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Yeah that’s not happening. He has control of the Senate, he has control of the federal courts, he has control of the Supreme Court now and he has the Attorney General doing his bidding. If the election is remotely close he isn’t going anywhere.
     
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  2. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    If America is that broken, and if it was so easy to break it, why do any of us want to live here?
     
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  3. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Because up until recently we had people in office that believed in our institutions and really wanted what was best for America. That isn’t always the case now. The rank and file civil servants that were fairly indifferent to which party ruled have been purged. The state and federal politicians have coalesced around the President believing their political future depends on it.

    Why would anyone want to stay here? The hope that the administration is removed from office and more honest men and women replace him... and many people also look and say “well it isn’t THAT bad”, when we haven’t had to deal with consequences yet.

    It has become popular for America and others to belittle the quality of life in the USA. Indeed if you are poor, there are a handful of countries in Western Europe, Canada and New Zealand that are better. However when it comes to upward mobility no place competes with the USA and the nice parts of the USA are the nicest and best places on the planet.... but for how long?
     
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  4. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Yeah, agree. I think nearly all of us over-estimated how vulnerable the system could be to odd combinations of ruthless corruption with magical thinking.

    I still have hope. If the election is close and Trump manages to wrangle a "victory" (sic) through the SCOTUS, with GOP senators looking on (and perhaps saving their own elections similarly through the stacked courts), I'll have a lot less hope for the future of the endeavor. Can only imagine what the DOJ would look like after another four years of Trump and Bill Barr, what would start happening to the press, to healthcare, to immigration. There is a playbook for these movements and these kinds of people; it's predictable and ugly. They've already surprised me with how far they'll push it.
     
  5. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    I'm looking forward to seeing it.
     
  6. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    I really don't think it will be that close of a race.
     
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  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    If Trump wins or is awarded a victory in a fraudulent election, the Republicans will win in 2024 as well. They will ensure every measure is taken to prevent an easy transfer of power.

    Further, I will likely be leaving for Ireland or possibly Finland.
     
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  8. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    He does not have control of the federal courts and i think him having control over the SC might be overrated don't think the majority of those judges don't want to be known as controlled by Trump or the taint of rigging an election on there legacy.

    Legacy seems to matter to these people and they don't really gain by voting for Trump.
     
  9. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    I would like to think that way, a sort of reasonable late-20th-century America way... but we have no idea what conversations have been had. What promises have been made. And there is financial dirt related to everything Trump has ever touched. I mean, find an example where that statement is wrong, be it his casinos, building projects, false charities, scam businesses, weird loans, etc.

    Kav-bro got the nod specifically b/c of his view of presidential powers. This new justice was speaking out in 2016 saying Garland shouldn't get a hearing, and now she'll readily accept an even-more-compressed timeline in an election year. We may completely overrate their scruples.

    Humans are a scummy species at some basic level. I have always loved the Christian notion of being born in original sin. We have to work our way up from that low place. Anyway, the GOP's embrace of people being scum is a successful, if disappointing, strategy.
     
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  10. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    I understand all of that but they can go back on there promises Kav bro has already voted across party lines.

    I just don't think people are actually loyal to Trump and these justices have nothing to lose except for their legacy, not saying some of them will vote party line but Trump has pissed a lot of people in the judiciary and a lot of Republicans think he more problems than he is worth and they will have the court majority anyway.

    I just think al ot of people are using Trump and nobody wants him to become dictator, I guess a lot depends on what the actual case is that is brought before the court.
     
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  11. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-of-82-countries/
    US social mobility is ranked 27. It used to be higher I believe before GOP domination and the Corporate Dems trying to contest with them for the donor class support. The US definitely has some of the nicest and best places. .
     
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  12. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    I think those in power is definitely doing that. Pew in 2017 found 1/3 of Republicans support an executive with no check from congress or the judicial branch. That’s 2017. I’m quite sure it’s more than 1/3 now. That’s the devolving danger of power for the sake of power. I read that the German politicians thought of hitler as a fool, one that they could control.

    If the election is anywhere close with a loss, I have little doubt it would be challenged based on fraud and that the DOJ and republican control congress will support this president. Maybe it’s a coin flip with the court - that itself is already too dangerous. We shouldn’t even have this conversation.
     
  13. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    Texas legend weighs in on the election:

     
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  14. Nook

    Nook Member

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    That is nice, but having done business all over the world and having lived in some of these places; the USA is easier to be socially mobile than many of the nations listed. To be clear, I am not saying it easy or a forgone conclusion but there are still many opportunities.
     
  15. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Maybe it's because I lived in other countries and didn't feel like it was my home. America is still worth it for me. I mean half the people still believe whatever you're believing, so abandoning it now seems too luxurious and premature an option. Gonna take a shitload of unthankful work though...

    Ofc all bets are off if people on the street start calling me dirty, unclean, or the enemy.

    Who knows how the power dynamic will shift as whites become more and more a minority. Eventually those small states will be packed with non-whites as well.

    Guess the originalists will start the 3/5th trial balloons ASAP.
     
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  16. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    She must have run out of reality TV show offers...

     
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  17. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Palin is a moron and is too stupid to know that most people realize how stupid she is...

    DD
     
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  18. quaczar

    quaczar Member

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    Question for folks with Trump signs.

    Why do many of the signs and flags (bizarre on its own) not mention Pence?
     
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  19. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Its amazing she was actually a governor.
     
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  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Anything is possible and certainly that the USSC pulls another Bush v Gore. That said I don't think this is a likely. Roberts isn't Rhenquist and it seems like neither Gorsuch or Kavanaugh feel like they are indebted to Trump. They are conservatives but they've shown that when Trump is overstepping or just not doing things like right like the DACA decision they aren't going to bail him out. The ruling that SDNY prosecutors can subpoena Trump's tax returns and rejected the idea that President has special immunity is very telling about how where they view the limits of Presidential power.

    Further Trump isn't Bush and definitely not Bush in 2000. I think it would be one thing to agree to a ruling that did effectively put a GW Bush into office, who was an establishment Republican that while losing the popular vote wasn't as divisive as Trump and more importantly as corrupt as Trump is. Especially knowing how much Roberts wants to protect the court I'm not sure he will want to see the court coronating Trump at a time when the country is far more divided than it was in 2020 and knowing that Trump is responsible for much of that division.
     
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