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This Ryan Anderson/PJ Tucker PF tandem is destroying us

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Giant9erRocket, Dec 29, 2017.

  1. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Tucker is still good he's just not a PF/C like the Rockets are asking him to be. He's a physical defender at the wings who isn't unplayable on the offensive end. He's on this team to bother guys like Klay Thompson, and Kevin Durant.... NOT to play the PF position full time guarding guys like Al Horford in the paint. He looks bad right now because the Rockets are needing him to play a part he isn't really good at like he is at defending elite scorers.

    Ryno on the other hand.... has been hot garbage the month of December. He needs to get demoted to a bench reserve role ASAP.
     
    D-rock, BigMaloe and KlutchQT like this.
  2. Giant9erRocket

    Giant9erRocket Hakeem Olajuwon Status

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    YOLO the POF (or is it PJOF?) with no viable response besides name calling. I'm curious were you a Toronto or Suns fan last year?
     
  3. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    Tucker is AWESOME vs 3's and small quick 4's. He's even strong enough to play against true bigs for a while, but will tire out and it isn't his true best fit.

    Ryan is a specialist who is streaky. We all love him when he's on fire and hate him when he goes cold.

    Despite Harden being a force and Clint being pretty athletic when healthy , our team doesn't have great athleticism overall.

    Luc coming back will really help us here, but in the meantime it is a considerable weakness.
     
  4. bleedroxred79

    bleedroxred79 Member

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    Our team is constructed by Morey perfectly; when everyone's healthy. Every player has a specific role that suits their strengths (to ultimately beat the Warriors). When those roles are expanded, you're unfortunately seeing the correlating result.
     
  5. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    No need for a viable response. You come around when there's a sudden losing streak. Nice coincidence. When hou was winning and you were tagged countless times you were nowhere to be found


    That's why I'll continue to throw it in your face as the season goes on. But of course If they're winning you'll be like a dog with a tail bw your legs
     
  6. Codman

    Codman Contributing Member

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    I already know the RY criticism way too much (unfortunately and especially after the trade burn)

    But, even when I find myself cringing every time he takes a 3, I remind myself how much depth he brings with him in other areas of the game. He wasn't brought here to score...it's a bonus when he drops buckets.

    As fans, we should be viewing PJ Tucker is similar lens as we viewed Shane Battier. He does so damn much that doesn't show up in the boxscore.
    His shot hasn't been as consistent as previous years, and he's adjusting to taking more 3's than ever. But,even last night in the loss, PJ was responsible for several rebounds that we wouldn't have gotten in past years, several steals/loose-ball deflections, playing smart defense on Horford (PJ knows how to use his chest to push big guys further outside) and obviously some great team defense.

    *PJ is unique in that he plays great D on other teams' centers/starting PFs. Again, this was seen more in PHX/TOR but MDA has had to use him during BigCap's injury.

    *He's dropping double-doubles off the bench

    *PJ is one of our vocal leaders, especially with the 2nd unit (there is no price for smart,psychologically strong players with a select skill set)

    So, sure, criticize him all you desire, but recognize that we wouldn't have won many games without the countless, little things PJ does for us. And, be open to the fact that PJ has never been in a system like ours, and he has a decreased role here that he's embracing (started plenty in PHX/significant role in TOR)

    For whatever flaws we find in him, PJ is a great guy/player/value.

    Just my two ,valueless cents
     
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  7. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    Start Tucker at PF. You can then hide him in lineups where he is surrounded by 2 elite scorers and 2 other pretty good ones. He can't be left unguarded in the corner or in transition against PF's, he can definitely hurt you. This also allows us to hide Hardens defense among 4 good/great defenders.

    Anderson can backup the 4 and 5 coming off the bench with Gordon and next to either Paul or Harden. I think he would kill it in that role. Nene and Black have been less than impressive, maybe this is a chance to repurpose Ryno into super sub #2 gunning at the PF/C positions.

    I think that would be a better mix. Is it just me? I feel like that's a more balanced championship contender.
     
  8. Giant9erRocket

    Giant9erRocket Hakeem Olajuwon Status

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    And yet you come around to protect PJ from any harm... you still haven't brought any new insight to this conversation. I'm now starting to believe you're somehow related to him or maybe it is you?

    [​IMG]
     
  9. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    you're so smart. Detective for a living is my guess
     
  10. Giant9erRocket

    Giant9erRocket Hakeem Olajuwon Status

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    I believe the Battier and PJ Tucker comparison is way off. Battier was a top 5-6 draft pick and I believe PJ was picked in the 2nd round. I see PJ more as tweener at this point in his career where he's too slow to guard SFs and too small to guard PFs. Battier was the ultimate high defensive IQ SF in the game. I cringe more when PJ shoots a 3. Battier on the other hand looked smooth and if he was wide open he pretty much was money.
     
  11. Giant9erRocket

    Giant9erRocket Hakeem Olajuwon Status

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    Damn right! Since you have no avatar... can you please change it to that picture I just posted? It would fit you perfectly.
     
  12. Codman

    Codman Contributing Member

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    Your interpretation of my comparison is more literal than I intended it to be.

    I didn't write that we should compare them so specifically, in terms of draft position etc, etc....PJ certainly doesn't have the resume and reputation that Shane had for being a nightmare defender.

    I wrote the we should view PJ in the same lens .... as in Shane did so much that did not show up in the stat sheet. PJ also does many things on both sides of the court that do not show up in the box score.

    It would be disrespectful for me to say that Shane was in the same category as PJ. However, fans/media/etc might appreciate PJ more if they recalled how valuable Shane was for us in winning games WITHOUT the points.
     
    #32 Codman, Dec 29, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
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  13. Giant9erRocket

    Giant9erRocket Hakeem Olajuwon Status

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    I honestly didn't care for Battier however he would be an instant upgrade for us if we had him instead of PJ. At least we both can agree that he is not comparable to Battier however I can't pinpoint what he does for us that does not show up on the box score. I am still scratching my head trying to figure out why people who back up PJ try to emphasize this non-measurable production that he is contributing to our team. I'm sure we can find G-league players on two way contracts who can scrap for loose balls and be our tough guy but do we pay them $8m per season at age 33?
     
  14. motleydeflep6

    motleydeflep6 Member

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    Lmao, BIG TIME
     
  15. aroundtheblock2

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    No those are both terrible ideas despite the fact that I agree with you.
     
  16. Codman

    Codman Contributing Member

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    I'm critical of PJ, like any other Rocket (with the exception of 1 haha), and while I'm aware of his limitations and flaws, his positive output completely outweighs his errors or weaknesses.

    So, I understand the gist of what you're saying, but I disagree that there is no comparison between Shane and PJ. Was Shane a superior defender? Yes. But, Shane and PJ have similar roles on the Rockets, in terms of being on the team primarily for their defense, toughness and leadership. Regardless of Shane's career stats, PJ comes from the same class of grit.

    Like Battier, PJ has stuck around the league and has earned a nice contract because of his durability, defensive awareness and more importantly, doing things on the court that lead to wins.

    You've gotta watch more closely if you can't "pinpoint" what PJ does that's not within the box score category. For example, you'll see PJ rebounding at a healthy rate per game, but if you analyze WHICH rebounds he grabs, it's no surprise why Mike plays him in the crunch. Even last night in the loss, PJ grabbed crucial rebounds that gave us a chance to win. Another example from last night is the loose balls PJ helped corral. He didn't get credit for the steal, but his defensive pressure caused a loose ball that he tipped into the hands of another Rocket, for a change of possession.

    You wrote that a G-League player could do the same thing (loose balls, etc.)---I completely disagree, and I challenge you to name one. The reason you can't is because PJ plays the same, hard, no-nonsense style of defense for the entire season. I challenge you to name many guys in the NBA who are within the same realm of toughness, mostly defensively, but also on offense, too.

    I'm not giving enough credit to what PJ CAN do on offense because he can make plenty of shots, though he's more comfortable inside the 3-point-line.

    Also, I don't believe you're aware of the leadership that PJ brings with him. He is one of our more passionate players, and his age and experience brings wisdom and perseverance. You mentioned his age like a negative factor. I'd argue that it's a plus for us. Any team that goes far into the playoffs has great chemistry characterized with a mixture of youth and experience.

    PJ's contract is a moot point. 8 million per season isn't what it was years ago. It matches his value.

    Shane and PJ are not the same player, but they had/have similar roles/focus/leadership. They impacted the game in ways that are not in box score.
     
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  17. RocketsTruth

    RocketsTruth Member

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    Lol who is the moronic gm who signed these limited role players
     
  18. Giant9erRocket

    Giant9erRocket Hakeem Olajuwon Status

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    Are you 100% positive there isn't someone in this world we live in that could play this way?

    I am not an NBA scout/GM however I would bet my real life money that Morey could find someone who hustles all the time if his life depended on it. There's tons of players in the G-League, Overseas, Undrafted who play scrappy and hustle all game long however this is not something NBA scouts/GMs look for. It's probably one of the last "skill" you look for in an NBA player since it uses up all your energy for offense/defensive stops and it creates a ton of stupid fouls.

    Having said that, Tucker as i'm typing this is -10 +/- and his awesome stat line of 2 points (0-3 pointer) 2 rebounds. I watched every play that he did tonight and he was absolutely horrible. Giving up two AND 1 (one of them a 4 point play on Jodie Meeks) fouls, getting blocked 2 feet from the rim, turning the ball over on a simple pass which produced a 5-0 run in less than 20 seconds. MDA got so sick of him he ended up subbing him out the entire 4th quarter for Gerald Green.

    It's time to take off these lens you have and start looking at him with a magnifying glass because I don't see anything he does well for us.
     
  19. Moleb

    Moleb Member

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    Yeah I'm starting to dislike Tucker. At this point I'd like to see Green get some of Tucker's minutes.
     
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  20. ashleyem

    ashleyem Member

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    Like I said, the money should have went to the likes of Nick Young/Michael Beasley who can put the ball on the floor and make plays. Our frontcourt is full of stiffs on the offensive end. The signing of Gerald Green is a step in the right direction.
     

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