Here's my complete set of things Sam could learn. Ice -- Valyrian Steel to kill White Walkers Jon killed one already, so they could use more. Fire -- To kill Wights -- Wildfire, Fire Grenades and the true Lightbringer Let's set aside the dragons for now, as I could see battles prior to the dragons coming into play. If he does learn how to make Valyrian steel, that only takes out the White Walkers. Swords don't kill wights...only fire does. Benjen used a fire mace weapon on them. So, he could also learn how to make wildfire, those fire grenades that the COTF created,,, or (my favorite) the true Lightbringer that Melissandre tried to make for Stannis ... but it wasn't as powerful as the true Lightbringer which is meant for the Prince that is Promised. If Sam could learn to just make it and give it to anyone, wouldn't it be great to see The Hound overcome his fear of fire to wield the Lightbringer fighting side-by-side with Jon and his Valyrian sword to wack wights with abandon (like Benjen and his fire mace) while Jon fights the White Walkers. However, you don't really need to make special fire weapons ... contemporary weapons like volleys of flaming arrows and Braveheart rolling logs of tar and fire would do, too. Of course, maybe if you kill all the White Walkers with Valyrian swords, the wights instantly die. Magic Spells -- That prevent Others/Wights from crossing Sam could learn the magic spells that keep wights and White Walkers (and Benjen) from passing the Wall and entering the Three-eyed Ravens Weirwood tree fort. So, I could see a battle whereby Sam enchants an open field to force the Others/Wights into a narrow pass, and Jon sets another Battle of Cannae encirclement to wipe out thousands combining Braveheart logs and Agincourt volleys of flaming arrows, but they still keep coming...finding another way around.
There's the dagger that was used in the attempted assassination of Bran in season 1. I think Littlefinger currently has possession of that. There's a few others from the lore in the books, but I'm not sure any except what we've mentioned already have been introduced in the show.
Sometimes we overthink things...thinking they could be more complicated. In this case, more complex than the *now* obvious R+L=J. It's probably just simple...the show muted Lyanna for all the viewers who don't read theories online and haven't read the books. For those viewers (the vast majority, likely), all they really needed to figure out was this is the baby that Ned brought back after the war...it isn't his (thus not his b*stard); it isn't Robert's; but it is Jon. That's a big enough reveal, while offering a cliffhanger to think about. Viewers should be able to figure out that to be significant, the father has to be a King or direct heir. It isn't Robert, from the reveal. And Rhaegar is someone maybe many viewers will have to figure out, making it a nice cliffhanger, which they will clear up later. I think the Mad King is a stupid idea, and glad I don't watch After the Thrones...and now certainly won't. Keep it simple.
He's Dany's Nephew if Rhaegar is his father, but if Aery's is his father than he's Dany's brother is what I meant. I mean, it is possible.
I don't know if it is stupid but it would make the relationship between Dany and Jon simpler. Brother and Sister. But it does go against everything that has to do with Rhaegar being his father. I wonder how much the R+L stuff went over the ordinary viewer's head though with how they did it. I was watching with someone and the reveal was mostly lost on them. It's not like the show goes into great detail about Robert's Rebellion and how it lead up to what was in that tower. They probably should have made it a bit more clearer but you are right, they will probably clear it up before it's said and done.
I know a watcher who doesn't do any online stuff and he didn't even get who Lyanna was. He doesn't pay super close attention to the details and really struggles to connect scenes to each other in GOT.
I try my best to avoid spoilers. I learned last season that I was very clumsy in connecting the dots, too. This season, I re-watched all 5 prior seasons between January and May, so was at an advantage to most viewers. I never wanted to know what R+L=J meant nor the Tower of Joy background, and was able to avoid knowing. I had to piece together the reveal. Honestly, I didn't really even expect a baby to be in the ToJ. I really enjoyed the surprise, and thinking it through. I think most of my friends will still be trying to piece it together and enjoy it as a cliffhanger. Haven't heard them talk about it, yet. To them, the Mad King is a good theory. I guess After the Thrones should suggest it. Did it suggest Rhaegar, as well?
That has to be the case for over 50% of the audience. If you didn't have forums, the book, bonus content, articles, etc... it's not easy. They introduce Lyanna right off the bat, before a new viewer even really cares about the show. By the time you're attached and allocate mental resources to following the tiny details it's too late. But that's what sets this series apart from most others. You basically have to do homework or you'll be left behind.
Yes, they said Rhaegar was the obvious baby daddy but that we couldn't yet rule out the Mad King. They suggested the Mad King because he has a history of giving his wives troubled pregnancies (8 of his 12 didn't work out), and Lyanna's was obviously bad enough to kill her while giving birth.
Well... there really arent that many trees on the iron islands. So, it could make sense that he lead a crew to rape and pillage, since that what they do and all, while handpicking and gathering trees for those supposed ships. :grin:
Yes same. They didn't even know who Rheagar was. I mean the show mentions him sure, but they never really get into the depth of it. I mean there is a lot going on. Yes, if you were to pay close attention to the show you can figure it out. They do talk about the past a lot. I think you could get it just from the first season and some of the things Ned says I do think most viewers will be lost on it until it is cleared up. Even to some people I explain it to they are still like "wait...who is Rhegar again?" people know who Dany, Jon, Robert, Ned, all the characters in the show are...but the show has never put a face to Rhaegar. Maybe next season we'll have more Bran flashbacks... but with the rumor's of a prequel series I wonder if HBO wants to dive too much into the past via Bran. Well when you put it like that it could make sense. Also, I know there is this theory that he wasn't mad after all. That he knew Winter was coming (Via Bran...again) and then it would make sense for him to try and fulfill this Azor Ahai prophecy himself. This theory makes sense, as the Mad King died saying "Burn Them All" over and over again...sounds familiar right? It doesn't directly connect back to Jon I suppose, since there is nothing in that whole Azor Ahai prophecy that's like "And a child born of fire and ice..." but maybe it's something he knew about as he started to turn "Crazy"
I didn't get that feeling that he was a dimwit. I personally find Little Finger and Vary's characters to be interesting in how much power they have secured despite not being Lords or coming from wealth. Little Finger now has the strongest army in the North. Vary's sits at the side of the person he helped create leading an invasion with the strongest army. Love their characters and how they mirror each other; Little Finger believes chaos is a pit to be climbed and Vary's believe in "men" with great talent.
I really thought the Wall was going to fall this episode. Maybe mid to late 7th season? Thought this was also going to be a more Bran heavy episode but maybe we will get to see a flash back of Rhaeger next season. I'd be surprised at this point if the Wall came down early in season 7 but it would be a great twist to all the scheming. Seems they are going to set the stage for the for the crown and the possibly the North for the beginning of season 7.
Yeah... This is going to be bad, but he thought Jon Snow as Ned's son and that Lyanna was Ned's lover or something. Totally didn't get what was happening in that scene. I explained to him who Rhaegar was and had to retrace the whole story. It's a deep, complex show. I get why the show writers have been trying to dumb it down a little. If you aren't online reading backstory or a book reader I think it's hard to stay up on all of the details on these characters.
I signed up for a free 1 month trial on my Roku for HBO Now. Went through the entire thing in two weeks.
I wouldn't say I struggle to connect scenes. But I'm with your friend on Lyanna and Rheagar...didn't know who they were or much about them. From the incessant R+L=J posts + some general mentions in this thread, I think I get it. But I don't care to look too hard into it. It'll make complete sense when they spell it out next season, I'm sure. The episode was spectacular without that knowledge. Oh and yeah, this is what I thought too initially
