1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

COVID-19 (coronavirus disease)/SARS-CoV-2 virus

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by tinman, Jan 22, 2020.

  1. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,404
    Likes Received:
    15,834
    Yes - absolutely. If people do it, regardless of the why, the problem is solved. Unfortunately, we are not anywhere to close to that right now. According to this recent Gallup Poll, we're at 18% in the Never/Rarely category:

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/315590/americans-face-mask-usage-varies-greatly-demographics.aspx

    Broken down by party, the Never/Rarely category is:

    36% of Republicans
    20% of Independents
    2% of Democrats

    Most of those are in "never" rather than "rarely". There is literally only one person in the country that get us substantially closer to the 95% metric.

    This only addresses tracing, and not testing with its current 5-10 day delays. But beyond that, cell phone data can only really provide backdated location-based exposure. We know so much more about how the virus transmits now that it's mildly helpful, but not super helpful. If I get tested today and get results in a week, the phone tracing can only do so much. Hopefully going forward, I would largely self-isolate. So it can maybe tell people over the past 2 week period who might have been near me in some way. But if you're doing real contact tracing, then if I was in a bar, for example, that's far more important to contact trace than if I was in a park.

    If everyone's phone alerts them that a week ago, they were near someone that had Covid but without useful details, it's going to cause a mass testing panic - and we'll be back to March where they have to restrict testing due to a lack of availability.
     
  2. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    56,152
    Likes Received:
    47,996
    [​IMG]
     
    jiggyfly, Nook and STR8Thugg like this.
  3. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    85,500
    Likes Received:
    83,774
    And there's not a snowball's chance in hell that 95% of Texans are wearing masks.

    [​IMG]
     
    jiggyfly, Nook and OmegaSupreme like this.
  4. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    23,253
    Likes Received:
    9,594
    Active cases in Texas dropped for the first time since June 8. In that time they are up 417% from 32,176 to 134,345 active cases. I'm cautious on calling a top for Texas just yet though. Things do seem like they are slowing down though. Florida seems to have hit a plateau for % positives, but hasn't shown declines yet. It certainly looks like Arizona has topped.
     
  5. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    15,034
    Likes Received:
    6,207
    You understand your poll is drastically skewed?
    The title says 'how often do you wear your mask out in public' but then the question asks 'how often do you wear it outside your home'

    I wear a mask when I come in contact with anyone outside my (very small) work circle. That accounts for about 1 -2 hours out of my week. I spend approximately 40 hours outside my home per week.(at work) By this polls definition, I rarely wear my mask outside my home.

    The time im out in public, almost everyone is wearing a mask. Before the mandate, ~75% of the people wore masks.

    Im not trying to beat your point up with semantics. What I am trying to convey is from my observation (and Im in FL), when out in public, people wear masks. When I have been down at the beach, very very few people are wearing a mask but like most beaches, people dont want to be sitting on top of each other in the first place. They are easily 50' apart. Yes, there are popular beaches where people are piled on each other and this needs to stop. This isn't a mask issue at this point. These are stupid people gathering in large crowds unnecessarily. This is the same with (indoor) restaurants and bars and other common gatherings. Disney opening is idiotic. The big box chains are doing absolutely nothing now. We know. We understand. We just dont care.

    I believe we are looking at this problem with different lenses. You feel contact tracing is ineffective because most of the data is well over a week old. And I agree, stale data as such is largely ineffective.

    This is why I have been ranting about the healthcare system. There is no real money to be had in ramping up billions in COVID tracing. There is excellent money to be made in rapid tests charged at a premium. Rapid testing simply means buying your way to the front of the line. If you want to pay $$$ to get a quick test, its there. If all you want to contribute is a meager copay to your insurance company, back of the line you go.

    Rapid testing for the masses will require the government to create mobile labs and hire the required staff. Even outside of Trumps incompetence, our government is not setup for that. The government has been hands off on the health care market for way too long.

    So in a sense, TTI is pointless as stated. But if we are to accept this resolve, we should stop b****ing about Trump.
     
  6. bloodwings19

    bloodwings19 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    5,388
    Likes Received:
    3,921
    Don't wear mask all the time, or wear it too tight. I've been wearing mask for most of my job since March, mostly on and now I'm experiencing ear pain around the head from putting it on too long. So now, I need to not wear mask when I don't have people around and that is going to be tough. Now every time I wear it, it feels like my ear is coming off. Take care everyone.
     
    TWS1986 likes this.
  7. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    26,729
    Likes Received:
    3,477
    you need a bigger mask. I used a 3d printed hook on the back to keep it off my ears.
     
    bloodwings19, Nook and Pole like this.
  8. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    56,152
    Likes Received:
    47,996
    [​IMG]
     
  9. SuraGotMadHops

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,576
    Likes Received:
    5,940
    How many mask wearers are wearing their mask property? I see waaaaaaaaaay too many noses when I am out and about. If it's not worn properly it will not be effective.
     
    malakas likes this.
  10. Joshfast

    Joshfast "We're all gonna die" - Billy Sole
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2001
    Messages:
    6,476
    Likes Received:
    2,068
    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2...ump-orders-hospitals-stop-sending-coronavirus

    Warnings of Possible Cover-Up in Progress as Trump Orders Hospitals to Stop Sending Coronavirus Data to CDC
    "While many governments suppress the virus, the U.S. suppresses information about the virus."
    Jake Johnson, staff writer
    Public health experts are warning that coronavirus statistics will soon be newly vulnerable to political manipulation after the Trump administration ordered hospitals to send Covid-19 patient data directly to a Department of Health and Human Services system rather than the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which usually receives the information and releases it to the public.

    The New York Times reported Tuesday that the HHS database now positioned to collect daily Covid-19 information from hospitals "is not open to the public, which could affect the work of scores of researchers, modelers, and health officials who rely on CDC data to make projections and crucial decisions."

    "Centralizing control of all data under the umbrella of an inherently political apparatus is dangerous and breeds distrust."
    —Dr. Nicole Lurie

    "Health and Human Services said that going forward, hospitals should report detailed information on a daily basis directly to the new centralized system, which is managed by TeleTracking, a health data firm with headquarters in Pittsburgh," the Times noted.

    The administration's new directive came in the form of a document (pdf) quietly posted online last week by HHS, an agency headed by former pharmaceutical executive and Trump appointee Alex Azar.

    "As of July 15, 2020, hospitals should no longer report the Covid-19 information in this document to the National Healthcare Safety Network site," the directive states, referring to the CDC's data-gathering system.

    Dr. Nicole Lurie, who served in former President Barack Obama's HHS, told the Times that "centralizing control of all data under the umbrella of an inherently political apparatus is dangerous and breeds distrust."

    "It appears to cut off the ability of agencies like CDC to do its basic job," said Lurie.

    HHS spokesperson Michael Caputo confirmed in a statement to NBC News that the CDC will "no longer control" coronavirus data collection but said the agency will still participate in the process.

    While administration officials portrayed the order as part of an attempt to streamline data-collection efforts, health experts were alarmed by the move given President Donald Trump's public attacks on the CDC and his complaints about how the recent surge in coronavirus cases "makes us look bad."

    "Speechless—Trump White House is now muzzling, bypassing, and kneecapping the CDC," tweeted epidemiologist Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding. "No other ways to spin this."

    Dr. Leana Wen, a visiting professor at the Milken Institute School of Public Health at George Washington University, said in an interview on MSNBC late Tuesday that the decision to cut the CDC off from crucial Covid-19 patient data could undermine the U.S. response to the pandemic as infections surge across the nation.

    "The CDC is supposed to analyze the data coming from different regions of the country," said Wen. "I'm really deeply concerned about what we've seen with the attacks on science and public health in recent days, because public health hinges on public trust. And when politicians—including the top public official, the elected official of our country, President Trump—start attacking public health, it really undermines of all of local, state, and federal response to this pandemic."

    The administration's order came just hours after four former CDC directors wrote in a Washington Post op-ed Tuesday that "no president ever politicized [the CDC's] science the way Trump has."

    "Trying to fight this pandemic while subverting scientific expertise is like fighting blindfolded," wrote Tom Frieden, Jeffrey Koplan, David Satcher, and Richard Besser. "It is not too late to give the CDC its proper role in guiding this response. But the clock is ticking."
     
    Nook and Cokebabies like this.
  11. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,688
    Likes Received:
    44,881
    how many mask wearers are using proper sanitation/disposal with use. Using the same cloth masks over and over without consistent wash or surgical masks that aren't meant for continuous use. There sure are a lot of clearly dirty masks out there that are obviously way past their use.
     
  12. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    23,253
    Likes Received:
    9,594

    I don't think this as nefarious as the article is making it sound. The daily data primarily comes from the states/counties and not the CDC. The CDC data is slow. It sounded like the HHS was still going to be sharing the data with the CDC and they would eventually be making it public. That said I don't know the exact goals it is looking to accomplish. I'd be curious to hear some calm analysis of this move. Dr Eric Feigl Ding quoted in that article is one of the few people I've ever had to unfollow on twitter because of his extreme bias interfering with his ability to analyze things.

    If you want data go to covidtracking.com or directly to the state websites. That will not be changed from this action.
     
  13. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    23,253
    Likes Received:
    9,594
    I think there is a strong chance Texas has topped out. Active cases have declined two days in a row and percent positive rates look to have topped out. However, I don't think we hit any kind of herd immunity like the original outbreak states or Euro countries potentially have. Their percent positive rates haven't jumped like the states in the south and west with reopening. Arizona has probably hit it though. Just my thoughts.

    One thing I have noticed is that the states don't seem to be doing a great job of clearing out active cases. Like there is no way NY still has 192k active cases out of 430k total. I suspect active cases might be significantly lower.
     
    Kim likes this.
  14. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2006
    Messages:
    14,753
    Likes Received:
    23,303
    Last I heard, no one has hit herd immunity (I would think there is either herd immunity or there isn't, unless there is some in between measure I'm not aware of). You may have shared an article and I may have missed it.
     
    Nook and malakas like this.
  15. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,127
    Likes Received:
    112,645
    This is my concern.

    President Trump desperately wants a return to normality because his response to COVID is destroying him.

    I have zero doubt that he is and will put unfair amounts of pressure to get a vaccine released ASAP at all costs, including it not being properly studied for safety.

    As a result people have severe side effects and stop trusting vaccines.
     
    malakas likes this.
  16. jchu14

    jchu14 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2000
    Messages:
    924
    Likes Received:
    918
    Where are you seeing active cases? On the DSHS dashboard?

    If so, I would not read too much into the day to day data on active cases. The counties don't seem to do a good job in keeping track of active cases and recoveries. Sometimes the numbers would change drastically in a single day. For example, Bexar county showed a drastic drop on 7/14 from 11.5k to 8.6k cases in one day and McLenan county went from 2000 actives to 1000 actives in one day. The counties may just be updating their number once every few days so the number could be correct, but I would not read too much into the trends.
     
    Kim and dc rock like this.
  17. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,127
    Likes Received:
    112,645
    Of course it is a cover up.... there has been a full fledged cover up in Florida concerning the actual number of deaths... and whispers about Texas as well... look at the total number of deaths in the individual states and compare it to previous years... there is a “death %” that is very consistent... it is a very telling indicator and Florida is way beyond the number even when accounted for know COVID deaths... So yes, Trump will lie about the information and numbers... he already complained about too many positive tests and deaths shouldn’t be labeled as death by COVID.
     
    malakas and arkoe like this.
  18. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    56,152
    Likes Received:
    47,996
    Okay.
     
    Nook likes this.
  19. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    23,253
    Likes Received:
    9,594
    https://dshs.texas.gov/coronavirus/additionaldata.aspx

    Estimated active cases over time by county has the data. I had to sum up all the counties to get the total active cases. Active cases had been increasing everyday since 6/8 until yesterday and we have had 2 days in a row of declines. It's also been a few weeks since we shut things down again so we should be seeing topping out by now.
     
  20. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    23,253
    Likes Received:
    9,594
    Thanks for the input. Anything else to provide?
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now