Over and undersized is what you talk about when you are drafting players and you are trying to predict what they will be on an NBA court. We already know what all these players are. Their size is irrelevant.
I think that deal you proposed makes sense, considering contracts. I would guess Morey would not do it, b/c he still would want "flexibility", am I right? I like the idea of Markieff, b/c some stats show he's a good defender and I think he could be a passable stretch 4. Much like my expectations were for Josh Smith this season. Markieff's rebounding numbers bum me out, but oh well. The contract is what pushes this deal over the top for me. That will be very cheap very soon.
lol ok...Well just about all of that is not true. Except it is true that we do indeed start talking about undersize/oversize while draft prospecting, but it is a running discussion throughout an entire player's career. And it is always brought up when a tweener like Morris is on the trade block. Saying size is irrelevant is like saying the score at the end of the game is irrelevant. (Reminds me of Markief trying to grab a board or block a shot)
No its true. No one has made a case that we need Morris for his defense or his rebounding, no one. Trying to use his size as case against him is a lame attempt to deflect from an actual discussion on the guys merits. As per usual, posters make up their mind about a player and then desperately try and find things to support their position, while blanketly dismissing the things they do well. Its stupid. I barely even like Morris, but I come across as his number one fan, by simply taking an objective look at how the Rockets could possibly use him.
See, this makes your position make that much more sense. You just don't know that Kieff is a poor defender, especially in the post. You talk about DMo getting pushed around in the paint, but you fail to realize that Markieff gave up over 52% at the rim as opposed to DMo giving up less than 49% despite the fact that DMo played against more capable scorers at teh rim given how much he played the 5 this last season. There is literally no case for Morris over DMo on either side of the ball. DMo is the better defender and the better, more versatile scorer.
In my personal opinion, the thing this team lacks from the PF position is weak side rebounding. Every time Howard goes up for a block, I cringe. Howard isn't doing anything wrong, but the PF probably isn't boxing out. So, Markieff's size does matter in that regard. He gives you offense, but I think we already have that. We probably need a rebounder/defensive PF to counteract what DMo already brings more than some stud. BTG is flat out correct. I don't know how you can argue that Markieff is a better defender.
Rim protection? Here's a article on Markieffs rim protection: http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/5/6/8548715/phoenix-suns-2014-15-report-cards-markieff-morris-steps-up-on-the Finally, a word about defense. When talking about defense, so many people look at power forwards and immediately determine their effectiveness by analyzing rim protection and stats such as "opponent FG% at rim". However, "rim protection" is only the cherry on top! In reality, only a couple of starting power forwards are elite rim protectors (Davis and Ibaka come to mind). Effective pick-and-roll defense is much more essential to a PF's skill set in today's league, which is so focused on spacing and shooting. So while Morris does not have the length for shot blocking, that does not negate his defensive abilities, just like Channing Frye's lack of rim protection did not make him a bad defender either. Despite his physical limitations, Markieff has the foot speed to hedge and recover, and his instincts on where to stand and where to shift are just fine. He's not even close to being a perfect defender, but blocking shots is overrated. So essentially rim defense is overrated for all pf's not named Anthony Davis. More important is p&n roll defense, lateral quickness & switches. In this sense, Markieff has DMo beat easily. Like I assumed, people on here overrate DMo because he's likable. But he's not as valuable as you perceive him
Josh is hardly the model you should use for anybody with a questionable fit. Let's not forget all of the heartburn and sensations we experienced every time Josh lined up for a three point attempt. His strong shooting percentage from distance in the playoffs was an anomaly. We essentially got him for free. Getting a player like that for nothing versus surrendering contracts/assets are two entirely different conversations. And like I said, if Morris gets "Josh Smith-ed", I'd gladly welcome him on this team since at that point it would be a worthwhile gamble. But this idea that we're going to trade for him, at least right now, is a fantasy for many reasons. Respectfully, this is the absolute weakest counterpoint you could have made in response to what I said regarding the topic of fit. We're supposed to disregard the facts that Morris' game is mid-range based, can't hit the corner three and has weaker paint numbers than both players all because, what, he averages 0.5 of a FT attempt more per game than D-Mo? And he doesn't draw more FT attempts than TJ. You're not making a believer out of me, to say the very least. We need to think logically here instead of being fascinated by shiny objects.
Even if he is better, I don't see the value in $8 mil for his production. That's how much we pay Ariza and of course we are paying DMo, TJo, and Capela much less. And Harrell will be on the rookie scale ad well. We need that extra money for flexibility.
I think the point is that both of TJo and DMo will be commanding well upwards of 10 million next season, and Markieff Morris is on about $8mill per year, for the next 4 years.
I don’t know whether he’s better than DMo, but he’s clearly an absolute BARGAIN at $8mil. An absolutely huge bargain. DMo even if he does not take another step forward, is going to get at least a 4yr/$60mil deal from someone. Probably more if he shows any signs of an outside shot. Meanwhile Morris has another 3 years at $24mil total. Slotting that $8mil/yr in the new cap wouldn’t even make a dent.
So now we're down to saying that Kieff is cheap, thus that means good? I don't care how much the moldy bread costs, I don't want it.
How much is Morris worth then? If he was a free agent along with DMo how much would he get? So we can put a number on his value
Before all this stuff? He'd have gotten probably $20mil/yr under new CBA. Probably Enes Kanter max this offseason if he was RFA. Is he worth that much? Who knows. Huh? This is my first response in this entire thread and I even said I don't know if he's better. What is wrong with you that seemingly every statement is construed as some sort of disagreement with you. And even if I did say Markieff is better for his cost, Morey does that stuff all the time. it's why he signed Ariza and left Parsons go, even while he negotiated for Parsons to come back just a few days earlier. Yeah, money matters in NBA.
Well said. One can argue about who out of D-Mo, T Jones or Markieff is the best player, but both D-Mo and Jones are on track to receive near max deals at the end of this season. If you think they are roughly in the same calibre (which I do), then Markieff's 8/year (for the next FOUR seasons) begins to seem awfully attractive.
With the expected ~30% salary cap hype, $8 million in next a few years would be equivalent to $6.2M this year. That's about $1M over this year's MLE. It's surely a value contact. If the Rockets can take Markief at a reasonable cost, I wouldn't mind the Rockets ship out BOTH DMo and TJones for upgrades at other positions.
Morris is a good "Value" contract at the PF slot. But, the skillset he brings are a dime a dozen in the league, why is it that guys like Terrence Jones and DMo are set to make max money while Markieff Morris is still in limbo in PHX? You'd think that teams looking for a free agent PF would rather trade for Morris at half price than go after TJ or DMo at 15M per. Is the rest of the league just plain old dumbasses and CF posters are geniuses? Or, like always, CF posters operate on limited information and only see what they want to see? Morris may be good value at 8M but his off court issues bring down his value alot...IMHO it brings it close to nil. In that case there is no point trading for him, because a guy like Montrezl Harrell is gonna put up the same production given PT and touches. DMO can easily be seen as an up-and-coming cornerstone in a franchise, focusing on his "production stats" and saying he is comparable to Markief is laughable considering DMo's 7 ft frame, post up, passing and stretch 4 capabilities. 3-4 years from now when these guys reach their peak, DMO is gonna be miles ahead of Morris because Morris' ceiling is limited by his height and short arms, he'll never get significantly better than what he is now whereas we don't know how good DMO can become. People advocating trading DMo for Morris reminds me of the OKC fans who wanted to trade Harden for KMart and the prospect goodie bag because Kmart's production is comparable to Harden when they were both traded. Quality wins out every time.
I don't remember any OKC fans wanting to trade Harden for KMart. Perhaps there were a few. In any case, the second worst contacts in the league are long-term mid-level contacts for players that give average production and efficiency. (The worst contacts being players on max or near nab long-term contacts who are simply mediocre to bad players.) Markieff fits into the category of the second worst contacts in the league. But he would be a bargain coming off the bench on a minimum salary.
Yeah but there is a reason to want Ariza over Parsons besides just money, defense. With Markieff Morris, you'd be signing an 8 million dollar backup that is a head case with off the court issues. Does that really sound like a Morey move? If Morris gets cut and doesn't get claimed, then sure, I could see maybe taking a gamble on him for a Josh Smith type of contract, but he's just not a good enough player to have the kind of off the court issues he has while costing 8 mil a year. I'd much rather pay Jones 10 mil a year to be the backup PF than have Morris at 8 mil assuming Jones' hobo stomping days are in the past.
