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The hostility on this site is towards idiots who have no idea what they're talking about. You've proven time and time and time and time again that to be the case. Maybe you watched LA and Knicks ball. You clearly didn't watch anything else. You have no idea what Karl Malones game was. You can't understand why Hakeem was light years the defender Shaq was. You thought Lin was going to blow up on the Lakers. You have no clue how to analyze the NBA game. You think it's about random YouTube videos. Yet you continue to make definitive statements of opinion when your lack of knowledge is pointed out to you. Plenty of people on this site, myself included, say stupid things. I learn from them. I say... Maybe they're right, let me really dig into this and see. Hakeem is one of, if not the greatest defensive player of all time. Blocks leader. Tops in steals. As good a man on man defender in the post as you'll find. As good a weak side post defender as you'll find. Capable of switching on PnR. And a dominant rebounder. The only big that comes close in the last 30 years is Duncan. Shaq was a better offensive player but of course did so via brute force. that should be respected. He had a post game too and was a better assist man than people remember. I give the nod to Hakeem over Shaq all time because Hakeem's game had no flaws. Shaq game had a serious flaw - pick and roll defense. Otherwise they're even. I don't care which player was better in the 90s. The 90s ignores half of Hakeem's career. Of course in the late 90s Shaq was a better player. Hakeem was near ancient at that point.
This forum is for Rockets fans to discuss topics with other Rockets fans. They call this place Clutch fans after Clutch City, the two time back to back Rockets championships for the city of Houston.
LOL. Looks like I am not the only one noticing how idiotic slestack11's posts have been over the two years he has been here. Dumb mixed in with clueless as to why he keeps getting banned everywhere. Lawlz.....
To everyone picking Penny Hardaway: he is ineligible. The OP explicitly rules out Chris Webber because he didn't play enough seasons in the 1990s, so that's also true of the guy picked two spots behind him in 1993 draft. I'd probably take Stockton, Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and Hakeem.
Is the year 99-00 part of the 90s? I count it, but I'm not a native English speaker. If it counts, then Penny and Webber would be eligible. If Penny isn't eligible, then yep, I guess I'd pick Stockton too. Isiah, Magic, Nash wouldn't be eligible, so that leaves just Stockton, Payton, Kevin Johnson, Mark Price... Great players but... Penny was better.
I love the general behavior of just calling someone an idiot if they have an opinion that differs from you. Real mature. About 75% of the posts on this site and on other forums like this are idiotic but I don't go around making personal attacks. I'm sure you and ZBoy must lead very successful lives. I assume you are bringing Karl Malone into this because him and Stockton ran the pick and roll and pretty much brought it to prominence in the NBA in the 90s? As I've said, Shaq and Hakeem are different types of defenders. Hakeem is quicker but smaller so of course he can get out to the shooter faster. Shaq didn't even bother because he was most effective if he stayed in the lane. I never said Hakeem wasn't a great defender, I'm just saying that Shaq sitting in the lane was his most effective option and his presence as a deterrent to driving the lane made him more effective defensively than numbers will show. In fact, the Clippers had Deandre popping out to get the shooter on pick and rolls last year and it was among the most frustrating things to watch because good teams would just make an extra pass and the lane was wide open because the Clips had no other rim protectors. Since 2001, they changed illegal defense rules so you can run pseudo zone defenses so I personally feel there are better ways to defend the pick and roll as a team rather than fall for it and pull your rim protector out of the lane. With Josh Smith on board next year, I don't mind as much if Deandre gets pulled out though. Don't know why there's reference that I thought Lin was going to blow up in LA. Any comment of any sort that I made was clearly sarcastic and it appears you guys don't have any filter for sarcasm. It's sort of ironic because I bet you and ZBoy and a number of people calling out folks on this site have never played organized basketball where you would run any sort of motion offense. I mean, seriously, have you played organized basketball? This is a forum with no honestly checker so you can just lie, but you know the truth. Additionally, I go to about 20 NBA games per season (sell the other half of my season tickets). How many Rockets games did you go to last year? Or do you just watch basketball in the box scores and read about stuff online and tell people they are an idiot because you read about it differently somewhere else that supports some sort of position that you favor of? Good for you. Cool, but this thread is about who would be the starting five in the 90's so that's why we are discussing the 90's. Otherwise, I'd point out Shaq's prime years which were in the early 2000's. When he averaged a ridiculous 38PPG and 16.7RPG in the 2000 NBA Finals. Or when he averaged 33PPG, 15.8RPG, and 4.8APG in the 2001 Finals. Or when he averaged 36.3PPG, 12.3RPG, and 3.8 APG in the 2002 Finals. Hakeem is a great player and I never said he wasn't. I would just choose Shaq over him.
if you don't love the Rockets you should ask yourself why you are here in the first place Nobody loves fake fans
You say that as if Hakeem was incapable of out-muscling people in the paint. You are incorrect. You are trying to justify Shaq's defensive inadequacies by saying the 2 players were simply different types of defenders. Reality says, the only real deference is one player was far superior in that aspect than the other.
Let's not go overboard. Shaq was an excellent rim protector. I think he deserves credit for that. I don't recall many people dunking on him until he got old. Yes pnr defense was his weakness, but overall I remember he was a very good man on man defender especially in the post.
I don't know who ZBoy is. I don't make personal attacks. I'm just attacking idiotic opinions... because they're idiotic. Which actually has turned out to be a pretty successful thing to do, professionally! I'm brining Malone into this because you think he wouldn't have been a good fit at PF next to Hakeem... when he would have been a great fit. Otis Thorpe plus a devastating mid-range game. Would be one of the best C/PF combos ever, if not the best. This is what I'm talking about. You are somehow trying to take the fact that Shaq was a lesser defender and turn it into him being a "different" defender. Yeah, he was different, in that he wasn't as good. Hakeem got out to the shooters better because he was a better defender. I think you are trying to imply Shaq was a scarier interior defender than Hakeem, I guess because he was less mobile and bigger?? Um... no. Hakeem was a more devastating interior defender. Which is why he leads the NBA all time in blocks. And certainly had as many if not more shots impacted than Shaw and certainly had as much if not more prevention of players going inside because of his presence. Nobody who has ever watched or played basketball would rather have Shaq defensively than Hakeem. This is because of the improved permitter game in the NBA. Bigs HAVE to pop out now. You can't just hang back when the guards running the PnR can hit 3's at 35%+, when we now know that is a more effective play. Bigs have to pop out. In today's NBA I'd rather have Hakeem even more. He could at least be marginally decent at popping out and guarding that backcourt player. Because you said it. If it was sarcasm, it was done poorly... I'm not calling out folks... I'm calling out dumb opinions... I played organized ball till I graduated high school. That's about 95% irrelevant though. Ask MJ - pretty great team builder and analyzer of talent though, right!! :roll eyes: How about Isaiah... you longing for him to be the Clippers next GM because he played so much organized ball at such a high level?? Direct knowledge of the game through participation can certainly help, but isn't a prerequisite to analysis of it. I live in Austin. I go to a couple Spurs games and a couple of Rockets games a year. Had season tickets to the Rockets when I live in H-town for about a decade. Went to game 6 and game 7 against the Knicks in the Finals... But again, completely irrelevant point. Is there some kind of study you have that says people who attend a lot of NBA games are better at analyzing NBA games, or are you just making stuff up?? I don't tell people they are idiots. I call idiotic opinions, idiotic. The irony of the above quote about box scores is that later on in your response you start resorting to Shaq box score numbers. You're all over the place dude. Shaq was a force of nature. But he had flaws. Defensively. Offensively at the FT line specifically. Hakeem had years with flaws, but also some fairly flawless seasons as well. he's the "5 tool" player that excels at every tool.
I don't believe anything he says. Just like that Lin fan who claimed to be some 60 year old Astros fan, who never posted on the Astros threads but 100% in the Lin thread. The only thing I believe that he says is true is that he's on many boards. I'm only on one. Clutchfans.
Do you really remember Penny's career? He only really played at a high level for three seasons before injuries derailed his career. Stockton and Payton were great for the entire decade.
^ Or at least Stockton played at a high level the entire decade. I guess Payton took a few years to reach that level.
