Let's just assume Yao and Dwight are equal. Are you saying Ryan Bowen Bob Sura Scott Padgett David Wesley Jon Barry Mike James is better than Trevor Ariza Corey Brewer Josh Smith Jason Terry Terrence Jones Prigioni http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2005.html http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2015.html
I notice your response to anything Tmac related goes back to him personally. You don't really respond to anybody directly lol But yes, Harden has a better supporting cast. It's not even debatable. At no point during Tmac's tenure did he have this much talent. Harden still has ways to go
Did I say that EVERY team that Harden played on was equal or worse than McGrady's? No, I didn't . How about we compare Yao, Scola, Landry, Mutumbo, Hayes and Battier to Lin, Parsons, Delfino, Asik, Greg Smith, Patrick Patterson, Marcus Morris and Tony Douglas ? That team that Harden was on his first year here was obviously worse than the McGrady, Yao, Battier, Scola, Hayes team yet McGrady was again inefficient, just as he's always been but Harden still shot 60% TS% with very little around him. In the last 5 seasons, Harden has posted TS% of .598,.660, .600, .618 and .605. In his entire 16 year career the best TS% McGrady ever posted was .564, .532,.526. As a Rocket, McGrady's career TS% is .506. It's not even close, Harden is way more efficient than McGrady. I'll say it again, McGrady wasn't a good shooter. Not good from the field, not good from 3pt and not good from the FT line. McGrady was a fabulous physical specimen but he would much rather stand on the perimeter and shoot jumpers than to use the advantage that his athleticism gave him. You can contrive all of the "what-if" scenarios that you like but the fact is that McGrady played 16 years in the league and he was a inefficient shooter that liked to hoist up jumpers for his entire career.
I was replying to the claim that McGrady always had inferior teammates to Harden. How do you disprove that? You site an obvious example. That's what I did. I picked 2008 because that's the best example of McGrady playing with talented teammates. Likewise 2013 was the best example of Harden playing with inferior teammates. So in that example, even when playing with a very good supporting cast, McGrady was still inefficient (48% TS%). Conversely, when playing with a weak supporting cast, Harden still was very efficient (60% TS%). That's why I picked those two years, to prove a point, to show that Harden with much worse teammates was still way more efficient than McGrady with a good supporting cast. Make sense? In my post I was referring to the regular season, not the playoffs.
I disagree with your first point. Efficiency isn't anything new. There's been superstars that are efficient all the way through the history of the league. Adrian Dantley had a career TS% of .617. Sidney Moncrief had a career TS% of .591 Magic Johnson had a career TS% of .610 Chris Mullen posted 7 consecutive seasons with a TS% over 60% Reggie Miller posted 9 consecutive seasons with a TS% over 60% Michael Jordan had 4 consecutive seasons with a TS% over 60% Mitch Richmond posted a career high TS% of 59.1% As far as point #2, pick any season of McGrady's 16 year career and he was more inefficient than any of Harden's last 5 seasons.
Which of the following NBA teams has retired the *legendary* player's jersey? Answer: Spoiler None. 0-7, just like his career playoff series record.
you're the one taking it personal because you are completing omitting the obvious TEAM SUCCESS and INDIVIDUAL SUCCESS of JAMES HARDEN. A ways to go what? Tmac only played 20 playoff games for the Rockets. Harden has already played 29. Tmac played 6 season with the Rockets and only 3 playoff runs. Harden is 3 for 3. I just hate how people are glorifying failure here, when the Rockets is full of success.
Yao Ming actually won a playoff series with the Rockets. Yao Ming had to endure the Francis and Tmac eras, they didn't get him the right complimentary superstar. Harden has played well with every superstar, Howard, Durant etc. There were 3 All stars before Harden Francis Tmac Yao Ming Only Yao Ming won a playoff series
You don't know anything about Tracy McGrady. In Toronto he played with this guy named Vince Carter, who AFTER Tmac left, won a playoff series. And has been to the Finals in his career. He didn't even want to play with his own cousin because he wanted to the MAN. So he was the MAN in Orlando and Houston and he failed. His ENTIRE CAREER INCLUDING CHINA, he never led a team to playoff series win. That's like 17 years of failure. The only time he got anywhere he rode the pine with the scrubs on the Spurs.
Brother you're going to hit HAKEEM STATUS very soon. You know that there's NO TRACY MCGRADY STATUS right?
Mullin, Richmond, Jordan, Miller... Yes some of the best shooters in history will have high ts% regardless of era. That wasn't my argument. The fact is the league now awards a lot more free throws for minor contact, ref baiting type calls, contact initiated by the offensive player, etc. I am not singling out Harden. It is a league wide phenomenon. Hate the game not the playa. To spell it out, whereas a hopeless drive to the basket 10-20 years ago may result in a missed fga, nowadays there is a higher chance for 2 free throws to be awarded instead, hence artificially elevating a player's ts%. As for point #2, Tmac was more aggressive driving and dunking early on in his career in Orlando. I'm not bashing Harden. I just really respect a young healthy T-Mac circa 2003. His game was ridiculous. I will concede that Harden is probably the better slasher though with his strong running back build, quickness and craftiness.
I'd agree that last season's team was more talented than any team that McGrady played on but that's isn't the point. That's just one season. How about the other seasons? Pick McGrady's best supporting cast, which was probably the 2008 team. It was way more talented than the 2013 team that Harden played on. You've attributed McGrady's inefficiency to a weak supporting cast. Well, on a talented 2008 team, McGrady still had a TS% of only 48.7%. With a clearly weaker supporting cast in 2013, Harden still managed to post a TS% of 60%. How do you explain that? Even with a good supporting cast McGrady was still inefficient. With a weaker supporting cast, Harden continued to be efficient. The fact that Harden later played on a very talented team in the future is totally unrelated. Harden was efficient with a weak supporting cast and he was also efficient with a talented supporting cast. McGrady was inefficient with a weak supporting cast and he was still inefficient with a good supporting cast. Why is that? It's simple, Harden is an efficient player and McGrady was an inefficient player.
Yes we are comparing them to some of the great shooters/scorers in history, isn't that what we were claiming Harden and T-Mac were? Comparing them to role players would be pointless. It only makes sense to compare them to their peers. McGrady shot plenty of free throws. In his prime, McGrady shot more than 7 FT / game with a high of 9.7/game. Harden has been averaging around 10 per game. That's not a huge difference, especially when you consider how much more Harden drives than McGrady did. McGrady wasn't a very good shooter, simple as that, but that shouldn't have mattered. McGrady had the physical tools so that he still should have been efficient despite the fact that he wasn't a great shooter. Look at the names of players from the past that I posted, Moncrief, Dantley, Magic and Richmond, none of those guys were great shooters but they all still managed to be efficient. People like to talk about what McGrady could have been or should have been because of his build and athleticism. No doubt that he had unbelievable tools but he never developed the other skills that he needed to be truly great. You can argue that it was work ethic, lack of drive, he was soft, injuries, whatever, it really doesn't matter. He was a very good player but he never developed his game to the point to where he was consistently able to carry his team and make them better. As Jordan got older he adjusted his game and added a postup game to compensate for being less athletic/wear and tear of years in the NBA. McGrady did the opposite, he became a guy that hung out on the perimeter and took low percentage shots. McGrady's athleticism could only take him so far and unfortunately at the peak of his athleticism he was still young and immature (as are most young players) and wasn't ready to lead a team.
Good post. I totally agree on the Jordan thing and how Tracy failed to evolve. However, I have to disagree on Mitch Richmond not being a good shooter. I remember he was a great shooter unless I am becoming senile Also, I have to point out cause and effect. Harden drives a lot in part because he knows he is good at getting to the free throw line. If he played in a different era where that might be ever so slightly less so, he might think twice. On the flip side, as passive and in love with long distance shots as he was, a healthy prime T-Mac would have eaten this softened league up and averaged even more free throws. This is just my opinion and speculation of course.
