I believe this followed him from Okc though. He had several bad series while he was there. he has been fine as a Rocket. I think it was 2009-2010, He got absolutely demolished by Kobe in the playoffs. Kobe exhausted Harden on both ends of the floor that series, I'll never forget watching him get dismantled.
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I will take Harden over prime McGrady by a whisker. But I trusted Yao to be a two-way impact player night in and night out. I usually wince when someone throws the ball to Dwight. The difference between those two as offensive centerpieces makes Yao & McGrady a pretty easy pick for me.
He had a very good performance overall this past season's playoffs. He was terrible vs Portland last year in the playoffs. Hopefully he has overcome the hump and is used to the pressure now. He can still become a better defender.
Harden vs TMac could be argued either way, and I can definitely see a great case that from 2000-2005, McGrady was a better player than Harden has been to date But as a Rocket? ... Until Harden: - opts for surgery out of nowhere to sabotage a potential trade that could have helped a Rockets squad preparing for a playoff run without him - badmouths the entire front office repeatedly in a pathetic effort to mask his own non-chalant approach to rehab all off-season - suddenly declares himself healthy and ready for big minutes as if he is the team's doctor and head coach - is sent home by the team mid-season to collect his huge salary for doing nothing more than staying away from the team - meekly fades away in his early 30's as a bench player desperately chasing his first taste of the 2nd round upon the coat-tails of proven winners ... maybe if he did all of this, Harden could attain the level of disappointment and failure that ultimately defined TMac's Rocket career As for Dwight vs Yao, we can make a more direct comparison that is much simpler Setting aside the individual 1-on-1 matchup, which Yao did own, they played 6 consecutive overlapping seasons in or near their respective primes (2004-2010) as the dominant Center in each conference During those 6 seasons, Dwight played in 99.4% of his team's possible games, missing only 3 of a possible 492 Yao played in 64% of those games for the Rockets Over those 6 seasons, Yao earned 4 of his 5 career All-NBA teams Dwight also earned 4 of his 8 total All-NBA team selections Wanna guess how many times Yao placed ahead of Dwight on those teams? Twice: 2005 - YM 3rd / DH did not make it (in his sophomore season) 2006 - YM 2nd / DH 3rd The other years? 2007 - DH 1st / YM 3rd 2008 - DH 1st / YM 2nd 2009 - DH 1st / YM not named 2010 - DH 1st / YM not named Not to mention during this same time period, Dwight was also named to All-DEF team 4 times while also winning 3 consecutive DPOY awards Yao never made any All-DEF teams, and his career-best finish for DPOY voting was a tie for 24th place in 2006, right alongside Devin Harris & Anthony Parker Once Dwight really hit his stride in his 4th season, he clearly became the better player Since then, he has cemented a better overall career than Yao already, due mainly to his clearly superior defense and health I get that Dwight's 2 years in Houston don't yet add up collectively to what Yao accomplished here over his 9-year career ... yet But with a few more deep playoff runs featuring the sheer domination of 'Playoff Dwight' we have seen twice already ... I could definitely see Dwight surpassing Yao in the hierarchy of Rockets Centers and finishing his career as a distant 3rd behind Dream and Mo
I am strictly talking about the Yao Howard part. There is just no constructive way to compare both Center's days in Houston. Howard would probably win more rounds in the playoffs with a better supporting cast but with worse numbers and contributions than Yao. If you want to talk Orlando Dwight, that guy had his run in the Eastern Conference like McGrady. Harden could actually have played with McGrady (SF and SG) but there was no way Yao and Dwight could have shared a court. Fellow posters are just commentating on what they saw from Yao in his prime here in Houston and Orlando Dwight who was the best defensive guy but just an above average guy on Offense. Yao wasn't the best on either side but was balanced, a tad better more skilled on O. Dwight is not getting any younger or significantly better.
The part about T-mac's failures and bad behaviour has zero to do with this debate. It's about what he did while he played. The part about Dwight making all 1st team and defensive teams says absolutely zero about his qualities compared to Yao. It is a meaningless 'award' or achievement. There have been many on those teams who were there based on past play, name, hype or even myth. DPOY is also not that impressive considering the competition and we all agree Dwight is the better defender and Yao the superior offensive player. Still, it does not matter for this discussion since it's about Dwight as a Rocket.
his failures has everything to do about the debate. James Harden took the Rockets further and hasn't been lying about his health or clashing with the organization. de nile is a river in Egypt, denial is what you are having with reality
Look, I dislike T-mac like the next man. His # retiring? Hell no! He's a quitter and will never be considered a great Rocket imo. However, there's still no denying his talent and what he did for us during 2004 and 2008. Maxwell, one of your favourites, caused a lot of **** while he was here and quit too. Will you take that into consideration when you think of who was one of the best defensive SGs we've ever had or in a Maxwell vs. whoever debate? No you wouldn't, you've defended Maxwell to death so for you this is all personal and double-standards. I can say I'd take Yao and T-Mac, despite my dislike for Tracy. You cannot.
Your actng like tmac was this great player in Houston. He was better than good but by no means great. He never had a season come close to hardens this year his whole time in houston. Go back and look at his numbers there not overly impressive for the God like hype he getting my some. Both player a lot of games missing their center and harden just was better while guiding houston to a better record in a better western conference. It's not that hard to understand.
Haha good one, how am I acting like T-mac is great? Please explain how I did that and maybe consider I just said T-mac will not be remembered as a great player by me. Ok boss.
Maxwell and Tmac are completely different situations and players. Any Rocket fan knows that. Tracy McGrady quit on the Rockets while being the highest paid player on the Rockets and probably the league. What was McGrady mad about? his teammates didn't pass him the ball? his coach won't give him lots of minutes after he comes back from surgery? Maxwell was a volatile player and you took his starting job away from him. You slap Tmac in the face, he wouldn't do anything. You slap Maxwell in the face, they'll need to call 911 to help you off the floor. Maxwell said it himself on the documentary, he was not the type of person at that time to think first before reacting. Tmac dragged his crap out for a year, he was calculating and cared nothing about his teammates or fans. Maxwell had this guilt for years because he loved his teammates so much. I don't know if I can take you seriously as a Rockets fan since you cannot tell the difference between Tmac and Vernon Maxwell.
YaoMing#1, your observation is correct. And yes this person is Tmac fan who is pretending to be not biased. I support your posts cause I know your post come from 1. your experiences as a Rockets fan 2. your heart as a Rockets fan 3. reality
It doesn't matter what they were mad about, they both quit and clearly double standards is your middle name. Judging T-mac or Maxwell for that matter for what they did on the court has zero to do in this discussion with off the court stuff. That's I'm trying to tell you.
Fits tinman to a T Now stop high jacking this thread 99 problems and go wait for a call from Adam Sandler! :grin:
you brought up Maxwell and you clearly do not know the difference. there are no standards, it is clear you are lacking knowledge of Rockets history and in this Tmac vs Harden debate, are in pure denial. if you throw away Tmac's b****ing, you still get no first round playoff series wins. you still get 20 playoff games as a Rocket. that's it 20 playoff games. And he only played 15 playoff games with the Magic. I see you as you are now. someone who has had a login before.
