Waller County: 'Illegal' Lane Change leads to Death

The problem is the cop escalated the situation. Turned a mundane traffic stop to a arrest.

Yes, the difference is that the cop didn't make it a "Lawful Order". The cop in the video I posted was clearly frustrated with the guy but probably in the end realized this was a traffic stop. There was no need to make it into anything other than that.

The other cops are not doing that. He could have rolled his eyes at her, gave her a ticket and they could have went about their way. That's why he stopped her isn't it? For a traffic stop?

Instead you'd think these people have contraband with how they are treated.

I mean hey, you're cool with people being arrested for traffic stops. (A man was shot over a traffic stop recently too...) I guess next time someone has a problem at the DMV or with a retail employee and gets an attitude with the employee the employee has the right to throw a haymaker. Because...attitude. Seems to me those people have more composure than cops these days.

Basically it sounds like your argument is that if you show attitude to a cop, that cop is now in his right to do whatever he wants to that person. Just because he didn't like that person's tone or what they said.

No, that guy didn't get away with it. That is how IT should be treated. The cop should remember WHY they pulled the person over in the first place. If it is just for a traffic stop then that's ALL it should be. They should be mature and composed enough to deal with attitudes. This idea that everyone is going to react the same way to being pulled over is beyond silly.

 

The problem was that someone was trying to play kid games with a cop and wasn't smart enough to get away with it. Simple as that.

Most cops will ask to get you out of the car if you try to play kid games with them. It's just a really dumb thing to do.

I am perfectly fine with stupid people ending up getting arrested for breaking the law while trying to play kid games with cops.

Funny how we ignore his part in that.....he was shot while throwing the car in gear with a cop reaching in the car....that'll happen.

It's sad that you don't see a difference between a cop, a DMV employee, and a retail employee. I think it pretty much explains your stance however.

 

Intelligence doesn't have anything to do with it. Irrelevant. The cop needed to have better composure. If the cop can't handle the variety of people they will encounter under different situations then they are not fit to be an officer.

A perfectly intelligent person can have a fit of anger at any time.

Whether it's true that most cops will or won't, that's not the issue here.

The issue here is that the cop was foolish enough to escalate what should have been a tame situation. Why can't you see that? Do you really think she NEEDED to be arrested?

The cop could have gave her a ticket then and there with a snide remark and this is of course a non-story. For it to become what it became is completely unnecessary.

So, again. I ask you. Was it necessary for him to drag her out of the car and arrest her?

Well, you're perfectly fine (or seemingly so) with cops shooting people for a traffic stop so that's not too surprising.

Should probably watch the video...


You really should listen to the interview that was posted multiple times in this thread and think a bit more on these things. You're fine with a cop shooting someone...IN THE HEAD no less...

Also, yes the man did drive off. But the cop didn't even make it a lawful order to get out of the car. All he did was say "Take your seatbelt off." and reached to open the door. Cops don't actually have a right to go reaching inside of your car without reason. Which is why (some) ask you to get out of the car.

Fact. The cop reached to open the man's door before the man drove off. The moment the cop reached to open the door, the man panics. It's a ill-advised move for him, but seeing as how he was shot in the head seconds later I guess his fear for the police was more than justified too.

Also, the cop fell down, he was never in danger of being ran over or having his arm somehow ripped off with the window wide open. The worst thing that could have happened is having his foot run over, but the car would have to have some major acceleration to pull that off. As it were, the cop fell backwards and suffered a fall.

I guess it is too much to ask for the officers not to be so terrified of everyday civilians that any little action puts them in fear for their life.

I think it's sad that you expect everyone to act uniformly in different situations and under different variables. You realize right that people have different personalities?

The reason I bring up those employees is because they realize that no two people are the same. One customer may scream and rage and another customer may roll their eyes and move on.

A world where everyone must act uniformly to a cop's will means stuff like this will continue to happen is what I'm saying. I'm not fine with people going to jail for having a bout of anger.

 

Cops don't prevent crime (they usually show up after the fact)... The respect they command isn't what they deserve. They should have thicker skin when dealing with the few who fail the attitude test. Especially considering the majority of the police force is just a revenue generating service to squeeze more money out of the taxpayers.

True that may be, but I believe this just isn't a minority issue like the mainstream media makes it out to be.

 

What I always thought to but some of the more recent empirical evidence points to it being anyone that they feel they can get away with or anyone in a subservient position. In many cases that will be black people or minorities; but it can also be poor white people, teenagers or some women.

As a teenager I was pulled over fairly regularly. I had the usual fishing questions ("where are you going", "where do you live", "who is that in the car with you"). I was always extremely polite in part because of the power dynamic. I was 18 in a car with someone that if so inclined, could ruin my life or kill me. Most of the officers were polite or polite enough. I didn't mind answering the questions, as some of it I could understand because I am sure we looked suspicious. As I have gotten older I am pulled over less and am still polite but not quite as deferential. I always have my hands in clear sight and say what I am going to do but am more confident.

I guess my point River is that I can understand being leery of the police, especially as a black man. Not every single officer is a bigot or out of control; but with a gun and a badge even a small percentage is enough. My son is biracial and I have taught him to do whatever it takes to keep the officer calm and appeased. It shouldn't be that way, we should treat officers with respect but shouldn't be worried about calming them down.

 

Why should he just know what she is thinking? She could have been irritated because she was pulled over for a traffic violation. She also could have been irritated because she was pulled over while she had weed in the car, or that she was pulled over while fleeing a crime scene. A cop is supposed to ask questions and investigate.

She didn't simply answer it though, did she. She b****ed and moaned and made excuses. He let her have her say, and then asked if she was done. If at that point she says yes and nothing else, what do you think happens? I think he lets her know that he is giving her a warning and sends her on her way.

The goal of a LEO at a traffic stop isn't to get the person on their way with the minimum amount of irritation to the person. If it was, they wouldn't even need to talk to the person beyond, "License, registration, and proof of insurance." Asking why a visibly upset person is upset is hardly rude or uncalled for.

It is not, and he could not arrest her for refusing to put out the cigarette. It was just one more indication that this person is behaving oddly.

Whatever gave you the idea that ending the traffic stop as soon as possible is or should be the goal of the officer. He is not allowed to unreasonably delay the stop, but conversing with the driver for a few minutes is well within the bounds of acceptable cop behavior. As for escalating the situation, none of what the cop did would escalate a situation with a normal person. Any normal person would not have reacted the way Bland did at any point in the stop, which is what would draw a good cop's suspicion. The only thing the cop did that could remotely be characterized as pushing her buttons was asking "Are you done?" That is hardly behavior that he would even need to be admonished for, let alone fired or any of the other repercussions mentioned in this thread.

 

That still makes no sense that he never states why he asked her out of her car. While I agree this was an incremental development the fact that he goes on yelling he was only going to give her a warning after her arrest doesn't explain why he felt she had to be ordered out of the car. She is only arrested because she doesn't comply with an order no motivation is attached to it. Granted it was a lawful order that she should have complied with but then to understand the situation shouldn't we at least know why he ordered her out in the first place?

I am very troubled that you would consider giving an honest answer that you are irritated by the traffic stop as being odd. Are you happy when you get pulled over for a traffic stop?
What I think you are saying is that it is odd that she gives an honest answer instead of giving a polite white lie. That probably is the wisest course of action but again goes to my point that it is a problem that we feel that unless we treat LE with the utmost politeness and submission arrest or worst is the natural consequence.

Again though he never states that she acted suspicious to her. He never states why she needs to get out the car. Your argument is that it is suspicious that someone would say they are irritated at a traffic stop but to me that belies human nature. Unless your view is that people should actually lie and hide their true feelings because otherwise and LEO is right to view you with suspicious.

I agree LE aren't robots but at the same time neither are people at the other end of a traffic stop. How is expressing an honest opinion that you are irritated by a traffic stop resistance justifying further consequence from the LEO? Your argument isn't one that is saying we should protect LEO but that LEO should actually be coddled and feared.

How is that improving trust or goodwill between LE and the communities they are sworn to protect?

 

That is highly speculative and not supported by the video evidence. The LEO never says that he thought she might be hiding something. All he says is that he was going to give her a warning. He never states why anything further was needed.

Except if you watch the video when he asks "are you done?" she pretty much agrees. There is a pause and then he ask her to put out her cigarette. That is when she doesn't comply. I agree that if she put out her cigarette that likely would've ended the encounter but you seem to be ignoring the fact that it is the LEO and not Bland who prolongs the encounter after they both seemingly come to a point where they agree that the situation should be over.

The LEO is free to ask someone that but they should know that a traffic stop is generally not considered an enjoyable situation by most people.

Again I find this very disturbing that would consider normal human nature, expressing irritation at an uncomfortable situation, as being odd. Further if you are sayign here that he couldn't arrest her for not putting out her cigarette (not a lawful order) that then that is grounds for his suspicions for a search or for finding some other grounds for arresting her that to me is clearly an abuse of police powers.

I agree that lawful orders should be obeyed and the consequence of not following those then should be arrest you are taking that a step further by saying that not complying to even non-lawful orders even innocuous ones should be the basis for arrest.

True maybe a normal person would lie and tell the cop they aren't irritated and are having a wonderful day and a very enjoyable time being pulled over. While again that might be wise but that hardly seems like how people normally would behave to any situation that is uncomfortable.

 

Sure

Cop tails black woman.
Woman changes lane to let cop pass but doesn't signal
Cop pulls over woman
Cop issues warning but woman looks annoyed.
Cop asks why woman is annoyed.
Woman gives answer
Cop asks woman to put out cig
Woman refuses.
Cop asks woman to get out of car
Woman refuses
Cop goes medieval on woman and humiliates her and puts her under arrest.
Woman commits suicide in jail.

 

A question to Stupidmoniker since he has been stating that expressing irritation about a traffic stop is suspicious behavior. In my own personal situation where a Minneapolis LEO pulled me over and I disagreed with him regarding the basis of the traffic stop would you consider that being odd and suspicious behavior on my part and worthy of further investigation and potential arrest of me by the LEO?

 

I am sorry that you can't see a middle ground between lying and blowing sunshine up the cops ass and what Bland did. Before the cop says one word to her, she is visibly so disturbed that he asks if she is okay. How about saying, "Just irritated that I got pulled over." Instead she went on a 30 second rant about how she is waiting on him, that he was tailgating her, that it is stupid that she is getting pulled over, etc. "Are you done?" seems like a totally normal response to that. Then she mouths off some more. Then he says, "Would you mind putting out your cigarette, please." Hardly rude behavior on his part. And she goes off again about it is her car why should she have to put out her cigarette. If you can't see that her behavior is odd, I don't know what to tell you. I have never seen someone act like that when getting a ticket (or a warning in this case).

If the officer was some kind of troublemaker, why did the first stop on the tape go so smoothly? He had the exact same stop on the other girl, he was giving her a warning just like Bland, there are no raised voices, there is no ordering her out of the vehicle, no taser, no arrest, etc. Was she blowing him before the tape started, or was she just acting normal.

There are tons of cases about things that provoke suspicion, but are not illegal. It is not illegal to wear a jacket when it is hot out. It is not illegal to run if you see a cop. It is not illegal to go on a 30 second tirade because a cop asks if you are okay and says you seem irritated. Those are suspicious behaviors though.

Let me ask everyone going after this cop a hypothetical. If Bland had gotten out of the car when asked and been given the warning (everything else being the same up to that point), then sent on her way, would you all be tearing into the cop like this?

Simple disagreement? No. If he came up and said one innocuous thing to you and you ranted at him for 30 seconds, yes that is suspicious. I don't think an arrest is appropriate until a crime is committed.

 

Oh boy I am late to this thread. Anyways from her previous videos you can clearly see this lady had mental issues. I don't know if it has been posted on here but there is a video of her fighting with a mall cop. She was nuts and also represented that phony blacklivesmatter movement so of course she had to get into it with the cop. Are we going to blame cops for suicides now? Get your **** together people, cops are heroes.

 

This cop was definitely a hero and so are you.

 

I think to anyone it's just clear that the cop was looking to escalate that situation - being irritated and annoyed with a cop is not a reason for suspicion and definitely not a reason to escalate. The cop was soiling his oats and on a power trip. It's just obvious. There are cases where it's the other way around, but in this case, it's clear as day that the cop was escalating being he didn't like the woman.

That's not what his job is. He deserves to get fired and should not be a cop.

 

Basic common sense suggests that if one has something to hide or is 'acting suspicious' they would kiss the officer's ass to make him leave as soon as possible, not the direct opposite of speaking bluntly to the officer.

 

naw I'm not a hero but people who put their lives on the line to protect and serve are. And seeing how they are now targets It ****ing furious me.

 

So I'm assuming you believe that the law enforcement community is infallible?

 

I know, me too. These phony blacklivesmatter nuts are just putting the lives of heroes in danger with their dangerous, racist rhetoric.

 

No and if they do break the law, they are punished accordingly.

 

Whenever there's video, sometimes.