Waller County: 'Illegal' Lane Change leads to Death

That's the only source claiming that. Basically every other legal analyst has said that's wrong. Also, note the context:

It's not the law that he has to state a reason. It's part of the "de-escalation training" that he should have been taught.

 

A lawful order given because the cop was annoyed with her smoking? And she didn't assault him, he assaulted her and she exercised what would be called civil disobedience by refusing to be forced to do something that was a violation of her rights as a human being.

He was being vindictive because of her attitude. He had no reason to make her get out of the car. NONE. He had even said he was giving her a warning. All he had to do was hand her whatever it was and be on his way. Instead because she wanted to smoke in HER CAR, he decided to punish her.

Not for a traffic violation mind you, but because she was smoking.

If you have any sense of justice or the rights of citizens, you would be appalled by what this officer did.

 

I have no doubt that you think that, but it's simply not the case. When an officer orders you out of your car, you have to comply....or go to jail. Ignorance such as what you have displayed here is probably what got her in trouble.

 

A lawful order given because he wanted her to get out of the car.

When you bring up "civil disobedience", you do realize that people go to jail for that all the time right? Also, forcing her out of the car wasn't in violation of her rights....part of the problem is people foolishly thinking that they have rights they don't actually have.

You have no right to disobey a lawful order given to you by an officer.

You have no right to kick or scratch that officer for trying to enforce his lawful order...that's assault.

You do however, have the right to go to jail for those offenses.

 

In my experience, when people start saying "I have the right to....." they very rarely actually have a right to what they are claiming unless they are actually a lawyer. The louder they say it, the less likely they actually have that right.

 

I have to say I completely agree with CHI here. Compared to bobby's credibility on certain issues, or even standing on his own, CHI is above reproach.

And while I think CHI is being a little facetious to better illustrate the point, until bobby can prove a black man WOULDN'T be shot the statement is valid.

 

LOL, really?

The officer in the video was pulling a prank on the driver, so you think a cop would have shot someone he was pulling a prank on when he reacted in the intended manner?

C'mon man.

 

I wonder if you would buy the "she pushed my buttons" excuse for men who beat on their women...???

Man: But your honor she pushed my buttons...

Judge: Well in that case you're free to go...

Well, if you're not a white man in a suit... You should remember that you're not a white man in a suit when dealing with the police because you could get jacked up and or killed. Especially if you "push their buttons."

 

A lawful order to put out her cig you mean?

Yes people go to jail for civil disobedience. It was a violation of her rights. She didn't do anything wrong to deserve to be treated the way the cop treated her. Every person has a right to that. She didn't do anything wrong for that cop to tell her to put out her cigarette. Being forced out of your vehicle because you are smoking and refusing to smoke because it annoys the cop is not a reason to arrest her.

There's still a need for probable cause and suspicion. None of that was here. THis cop acted recklessly and put his life and the driver's life in danger. The only criminal here is that cop.

 

Absolutely. In matters where the facts aren't completely clear I have to defer to CHI's judgement if he weighs in. He doesn't post often but when he does he is right on the money. He is member 95 and only has 898 posts.

 

No it's just you. Thank goodness you are not a cop. Someone would be dead over a traffic stop.

 

No, he gave her the lawful order to step out of the car after she refused to put out her cigarette.

No one violated anyone's civil rights and it's laughable to even discuss it.

Given the rest of your comment I have to just write you off as someone who is simply anti-cop and as such I might as well stop the conversation because it's not going anywhere.


Let's try to keep some perspective here though, the ONLY reason this was a story was because the crazy woman killed herself.

 

Bobby you know your trolling has to stop this officer took it to far there was no reason to have her get out of the car.

 

The issue wasn't the officer commanding her to get out of the car.... It was ensued after that. He didn't handle the situation as well as he should as an officer. It is quite possible he gets fired for it. They already said he broke protocol.

There really shouldn't be any debate over the command to get out of the vehicle and whether or not the officer acted outside the rules and regulations.

The issue is how should it be handled in the future and what is appropriate discipline of the officer. The citizen was arrested and spent several days in holding.

The citizen has had two autopsies and it has been strongly rules a suicide. I haven't heard any compelling evidence to the contrary thus far. My understanding is that the investigation is not complete yet so it could possibly change but doesn't appear so at this point.

So my question is, what is the proper discipline for this officer? Should he be suspended without pay? Should he be fired? Should he face criminal charges?

I am sure there will be a civil suit, but that is a completely different animal with different standards of evidence and requirements. People put way too much emphasis on the guilt of someone based on a civil suit.... A civil suit is about money and not criminal innocence or guilt.

 

If you want to lie to yourself then say I am anti-cop. It's your prerogative to make up a fantasy world where those who disagree with you must be villains of some type.

But the fact you have yet to explain is why did the cop order that woman out of her car??? Because of what? Because she wouldn't put out a cig???

That's the stupidest reason to escalate a situation, and yes, when you escalate over something that trivial, it is a violation of rights. His order to have her exit her vehicle was based on vindictiveness, not justice. Let's just get that straight. If you can't see that, then you are just lying to yourself.

 

The mentally unstable woman was acting mentally unstable, so he probably wanted to check the vehicle. Of course, we have to guess because the mentally unstable woman acted crazy and got herself arrested before all of that could happen.

 

She was acting quite normal until he started to yell and threat her and physically yank her out.

But let's said he somehow was about to read her mind and determine that she was absolutely mentally unstable. Well, that's just great. Now, not only did he lost his cool, he compounded that mistake by completely mishandling those that are mentally unstable by escalating the situation; by not ever explaining why she need to get out of her car, by yelling, by physically yanking her out. That's not how any sane person, never-mind a trained cop, would handle those that are mentally unstable.

 

You know, even if she was mentally unstable that wouldn't help the officer case?

So this means that if you have a legit mental issue, you are at fault for having said issue? Instead of the officer being the one cool, calm, and collected...he goes off along with the "Mentally Unstable" person and makes what should have been a usual traffic stop into something else.

I mean not everyone is going to react the same to being stopped. Some people are going to be angry, maybe they are having a bad day? Maybe they are in a rush? Therefore being stopped irritates them, they get an attitude with an officer. It happens.

It is more on the cop to be the calm one. To not escalate a situation and not arrest someone for not putting out a cigarette during a traffic stop and then arrest her the way he did.

Yeah in a perfect world everyone is calm in this situation. The woman says "Yes sir" and puts out the cig and he gives her a warning or ticket and she goes about her day. Not a perfect world though. People have ****ty days, people have mental issues. It's the officer's job to be in control of the situation and quite frankly have some empathy for the person he's arresting.

 

That would never hold up in a court of law and you know it.

So you are saying his basis to antagonizing her was that she was mentally unstable???

Why did he ask her to put out the cig? First answer that. And then why would not putting out a cig justify asking her out of her car? The situation was totally under control up until that point.

 

I don't think the officer needs a reason to ask the person to get out of his car (Pennsylvania v. Mimms). The argument is its an inconvenience, but doesn't really violate anyone's rights. She should have got out of the car and kept smoking then that cop would be DOA in court.