Waller County: 'Illegal' Lane Change leads to Death

I don't think that's correct:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_v._Mimms

 

Based on the new information from the Texas Civil Rights project, you appear to be completely wrong. The law is not nearly as obvious as you think - or if it is, then it's obvious in the opposite way that you believe.

Either that, or you believe that it's the duty of a citizen to allow cops to break the law at will and just accept it. This attitude is how we end up with failed cops that go on power trips.

 

Just because it doesn't violate the 14th Amendment doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't violate Texas law or some other ordinance or come with other conditions.

 

I disagree. There is no such Texas law. You must step out of your vehicle, although you need not consent to the search of your vehicle. The only reason you would be able to refuse to step out of your vehicle is the stop itself being unlawful, making the order an unlawful order.

The ACLU recommends that you lock your vehicles and roll your windows up when exiting but the cop still needs your consent to search the vehicle unless he has probable cause.

The guy from the Texas Civil Rights Project (?) was incorrect and didn't cite anything to support his claim.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...s_legal_but_encinia_used_excessive_force.html

As mentioned in the Slate article, she resisted arrest by refusing to comply with a lawful order (leaving her car).

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/PE/8/38/38.03

 

Does that somehow negate the fact that the LEO made a rather mundane situation worse?


Those who believe the officer was in the right, answer me this question.

What would have happened if the officer allowed the lady to keep her cigarette and just wrote the ticket? What would have occurred? Would the officer's life be threatened?

Even if the officer gave a lawful order, was he professional when he stated that he is going to 'light her up' or that if the detained individual states that she has a medical condition the officer responds with "Good!" in a sarcastic manner. This situation would have been easily avoided if the officer sucked up his ego and just wrote the ****ing ticket.

However, again like clockwork, we have LEO **** suckers who place more of the blame on the individual WITHOUT TRAINING IN DEESCALATION.

 

I think Bob is just disputing Jim Harrington's claim that the officer also has to state a reason he is asking the person to exit the vehicle. I have never heard that caveat either, but Harrington is really well versed in this subject.

 

Yeah, I'm not trying to justify the officer's actions at all. I don't think there is any Texas law or case law that requires an officer to state a reason for a person exiting their car. An officer is allowed to do so to protect his own safety without explaining to the person "Step out of the car so that I can make sure I'm safe." How exactly would that work?

I don't think she actually posed any threat to his safety or that he thought she did. I think he asked her to step out of the car because he lawfully can and knew it would upset her. Officers often do things to get a reaction out of someone during a traffic stop, including simple **** like "do you know why I pulled you over"?

I trust that Harrington is well-versed but think he's wrong on this point.

 

In my experience being pulled over by Texas DPS, a couple times, they've always asked me to exit the vehicle for his safety and mine. Pretty much that phraseology every time so that may be DPS policy. The other police departments have never asked me that but HPD did threaten to shoot me once when I reached for my wallet after he asked me for ID.

 

I was pulled over and asked this question once about 20 years ago.

My response: "no, why did you pull me over."
Cop response: "I'M ASKING THE QUESTIONS HERE!"

I have always thought that was a strange exchange.

 

<iframe width="476" height="270" src="http://abc13.com/video/embed/?pid=872791" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

SANDRA BLAND'S SISTER SAYS OFFICER WAS 'PICKING ON HER'

Officials: Sandra Bland spoke of previous suicide attempt

 

That cop got upset way too easily

 

They ask you to put out the cigarette to see if you have a place to put it out. Ive had friends that tossed it and got a ticket for littering.

She said she didnt have to put out the cigarette because she was in her car, so he asked her to get out of the car. It was either because of the attitude she game or to be able to say, now you not in your car, put out the cigarette.

Chick had problems, neither one of them handled the issue correctly, i wouldnt put up with her ****, but im not a cop.

 

Is there any explanation for how she was in jail for 3 days? Seems like a long time for a minor traffic dispute. I guess maybe it was the weekend?

 

I don't even understand how she was being 'difficult' as many posters here suggest. She explicitly stated that she is upset that she was pulled over but stated that the officer has a job so just go write the ticket and be done with it. If the officer followed her advice, this incident would have never transpired. I guess there is a silver lining in the fact that the incident shined light of an officer who obviously isn't qualified to be an officer.

 

What's that thing Uncle Ben said about great power and great responsibility?

In any encounter, the officer and the suspect/pulled over person are not on equal footing. Their actions do not carry the same gravity. Their attitudes do not carry equal weight. I think we make a mistake when we try to take a balance sheet approach to these situations in the name of objectivity.

The officer was irresponsible in yielding his power. No matter the attitude or mental health of the person he pulled over, the officer has a duty to not escalate the situation. Yes, he is also human. But he is a human carrying a deadly weapon and an agent of the state with the legal authority to kill, maim, and harm.

 

Her mistake was viewing the officer as some kind of civil servant bound by some duty to not harm her. Had she treated him as a lion or savage beast or some kind of SS soldier by speaking in gentle and soft tones, nodding, and just doing whatever he commanded, she would have increased her chances of not just surviving the encounter, but not being arrested. And, of course, just hope he doesn't become offended by her docile tone.

It is a sad thing but maybe she should have just assumed the worse could happen at any moment and just comply to whatever bull**** the dude commanded. That is the only way she apparently could have come out of this without being to blame.

But still, there would be people who would perform great feats of mental gymnastics to defend the officer.

 

Exactly what I have been saying all along. One party is professionally trained AND PAYED to deescalate situations while the other party is a civilian with no such training. Why is it that the party that doesn't have the training and isn't payed to perform the task of deescalation often the one criticized more harshly? It just doesn't make sense to me.

It's obvious as night and day that the officer's command for her to step out of the vehicle was derived from ego rather than 'safety'. If for some reason the Supreme Court believes that it lawful to forcefully remove someone out of their vehicle out of ego and pride then I guess I disagree with the Supreme Court decision. Maybe the decision should have had more nuanced literature stating that the officer's intentions should be derived from safety rather than personal pride or ego.

 

"This family has no evidence.". You can say that again. "This family has no evidence."

 

It's fair to hope that cops in the boonies should be more professional, but I differ in that I don't expect it. And while it could be contributory towards her becoming depressed and it's definitely a tragic situation, if she killed herself and that's what's ultimately settled on as the truth, then this debate should be more about improving mental health and looking for signs as opposed to a race debate.