Waller County: 'Illegal' Lane Change leads to Death

Several things here.

1. When someone acts strangely, cops usually pull them out of the car and try to find out why they are acting that way. She was overly hostile with the cop for no reason whatsoever.....that's just begging for the cop to search the car.

2. There's no way this costs "millions of dollars", probably closer to hundreds of dollars, and the reason for it is because a crazy woman committed suicide in jail not because a cop did his job.

I really hope you are young, because you just have a weird way of looking at police interactions with the public.

 

The cop had just gotten finished pulling over a normal person just a little over a minute before he pulled this crazy woman over. Note how there was no problem with the normal person, and they just got away with a warning for speeding. None of this was the cop's fault.

 

Cops shouldn't be on such power trips. Since when does a cop have the right to tell someone to put out a cig in their own car? He was only doing that because he wanted to irritate her further. If he was going to give a warning say so, and then leave. Tailing someone and then pulling them over for forgetting to signal is a joke.

Once my dad and I were driving home - I was a kid sleeping in the car. This was in Houston. A car started tailing us closely and put on this super bright blinding light. It woke me up. You could hardly see. My dad ran a stop sign because he didn't know who this guy was chasing us. It turned out to be a cop. They pulled us over and was writing a ticket and my dad yelled at the cops for doing what they did. They stopped writing the ticket, apologized, and let us go.

Just because you get upset at being treated unfairly doesn't mean a cop should escalate the situation. There are good cops and there are bad ones. This was a bad cop. He deserves to be fired. Arresting someone for smoking in their car and refusing to put out their cigarette and being annoyed that you intimidated them isn't right.

 

Why is this in the news? There are suicides every day. Suicide is the 12th leading cause of death in the US.

 

Were you distracted when you watched the video? She was hardly arrested for smoking in her car.

She was detained for a criminal offense. When you're detained, you're not exactly free to go about your business. But where do you draw the line? If I'm going to write someone a citation, I'm not going to ask them to put the cigarette out. Most people do it because it's the nice thing to do. If I know I'm not going to arrest you, I really don't care what you're doing inside of your vehicle. If I'm responding to a shoplifter at Wal-Mart, I'm not going to let them burn one while I'm figuring out what I've got. It's all about the context of the situation.

Him asking her to exit the vehicle is legal and it's backed by the supreme court (Pennsylvanian vs Mimms 1977). After all, she's being detained for an arrestable offense. Him asking her to put the burner out is not against policy.

I get it. He wasn't patient. He asked her to exit the vehicle, calmly, and she didn't. Is he supposed to "ma'am" her to death or go ahead and assist her from the vehicle? I'm not too wild about messing around that close to the side of the road with cars passing. So what's a reasonable amount of times to ask her to exit? There's no answer. He was very patient until she failed to comply with a lawful order.

Seems that some want to argue that she shouldn't have been arrested in the first place.....but she was and it was a legal arrest. Liberal media just GOTTA find some way to spin this back on the officer! The news must not have anything else to report on. Kids being left in hot cars doesn't even shock the conscious anymore. They're reaching now.

 

Honestly if you are complaining about this cop in this situation then you are just anti-cop and you'd be against any cop that did their job.

I've had to deal with some bad cops before, this isn't one of them. If I were to get pulled over, I'd want it to be this cop because his first instinct was to write a warning even when someone was 100% guilty of multiple traffic violations....how often does that happen?

 

She asked him what she was being arrested for and he could not answer. What exactly was she arrested for? Changing lanes?

If you say "refusing to get out of the car", I'd push back and say, on what grounds does the officer have to ask her to get out of her vehicle? For not putting out the cig?

 

All chapter 9 of penal code requires an officer to do it "manifest his purpose" before effecting the arrest. That means an officer isn't supposed to just grab someone with letting them know what's going on, or their use of force against the officer would be justified. By an officer telling someone to "turn around you're under arrest" amounts to manifesting his purpose.

She wasn't walking down the sidewalk minding her own business, to see a State Trooper ordering her to turn around and put her hands behind her back. She knew why she was originally detained. I also wouldn't want to be told I'm under arrest if I didn't have any idea why.

She said repeatedly "really for a turn signal?" She knew why she was being arrested and she knew what he was trying to do. The officer was done asking. She wasn't going to cooperate. She had forced him to the point of "telling." There was no debating at that point.

There's a case law from 1977, Pennsylvania v. Mimms, 434 U.S. 106 that allows officers to have all occupants exit the vehicle. It extends to passengers in the vehicle as well.

In this case, Mrs. Bland getting asked from the vehicle so she could be taken into custody.

 

That was not what you stated earlier. You stated both not putting out the cig and exit as lawful reasons, now you changed to exit only, which is more accurate.

It is relevant. He needs to explain exactly why she must exit and why was that ask of her immediately after she didn't follow an order that was not a lawful request in the first place.

There are many good reasons that the court has argued for allowing officer the right to lawfully request you to exit during a traffic violation. I don't think his actions can be supported by any of those arguments.

He simply lost his cool because she didn't follow an order to put out her cig. He unnecessary escalate at that point and continue to do so afterward. Perhaps in the end, he was fully lawfully protected with that power even in this case, but make no mistake that he abuse that power.

 

Reading this thread only demonstrates one thing conclusively - Bobbythegreat is an imbecile. I'm guessing IQ near 70, likes-to-argue-guy that is impossible to shout down in person, has higher education than his peers and family so feels authoritative.

Seriously dude. Check yourself.

 

He asked her out of the vehicle because she refused to put out a cig. So therefore his decision to put her into custody was because of that according to what you wrote above.

I find it disturbing that a cop would escalate over a cigarette. It's stupid. It's an abuse of power. I could understand her being arrested if she told him she was going to beat him up. But she didn't threaten him or in any way was a threat to anyone. Refusing to put out a smoke shouldn't be a cause for arrest.

Fact is, he didn't like her attitude and they didn't like each other. He arrested her because she was being saucy and that's not a good reason to put someone into custody. What happened after that was an embarrassment to both of them.

 

Really? Wow.

The officer doesn't need to explain why he's asking someone out of the vehicle. Supreme court has been clear on this issue. Him asking her out is the reason she needs to get out. She is NOT FREE TO GO. She's DETAINED. That means there's enough reason to handcuff her during this encounter while he completes the citation.

If she would have exited, he would have issued her the citation or warning and she would have been on her way. By her refusing to exit the vehicle, SHE escalated the situation. Mrs. Bland is the ONLY one to blame that this ended in an arrest. He had a warning ticket filled out. She unnecessarily escalated the situation.

 

Her attitude took it from a warning to an arrest. She was arrested for a criminal traffic violation. Stupid games, stupid prizes.

 

I don't know about you, but I don't want to be at your door trying to finish up business while your stinking ass Newport smoke is rolling out of the window. Maybe I'm weird...

 

Tough ****. Deal with it.

 

I do. I'm a professional. I don't like it, it just makes me go that much faster.

However, respectable people with manners will put it out

 

Alright.

He had the right to command her to get out of the car. The issue has been brought before the courts a number of times and when it comes to traffic stops you have to get out if they command you to. If you fail to get out you can be arrested. Anyone arguing otherwise isn't going to get anywhere. From a legal standpoint it has nothing to do with the cigarette. Once he tells her to get out of her car she has to.

Concerning the cigarette, whether he can tell her to put it out. It was a command and at the time asked is considered a lawful command. Later a court can retrospectively decide whether it actually was a lawful command or not. It isn't really that relevant though as it wasn't the cigarette that got her in trouble it was not getting out of her vehicle.

Oddly she did do things that she legally didn't have to; such as answering questions about what was wrong, how long she had been in town. Those are questions that most decent people answer; but are not legally required.

As far as where the officer screwed up, he should have realized she was an ******* and not stooped to her level. He is a professional and should know how to respond to low life's like the driver. Instead he lacked self control, he noticeably became irritated and became every bit the prick the driver was. His line about the taser was clearly said in retaliation to how the driver was talking to him. He cannot do that. He also broke his agencies protocol on how to handle stops and he deserves to and should get punished for it. If you notice the female officer that comes to the scene is smart, she doesn't engage the driver and the situation settles down a bit. That is how the officer should have reacted.

I don't see how anyone can defend either of these people. She wanted trouble, she purposely provoked him and wanted a large scene. He even points out that he wrote her a warning. If you watch the video she ran a stop sign and twice didn't use her blinker. She wasn't being careful. The cop seemed like he just wanted to pull people over. He was challenged and as an authority figure didn't like it at all... Too bad. She could have been arrested or received citations after failing to comply by following agency procedures. As far as the driver, that is just about the worst possible way to handle a traffic stop. I have zero respect for either of these losers.

 

Cop was escalating from the get go. Giving her the opportunity to explain her irritation, and then the "are you done?" isn't gonna calm anyone down. If he started by saying she'd just be getting a warning that might have had her in a lot better mood than first inviting her to complain and then mocking those complaints. The cop doesn't have to care about her mood, but he was goading her attitude.

Most of us get the idea that we should respect authority and try to make the pullover as smooth as possible. But some partial reason to that is because I realize I'm at the mercy of that individual cop's mood and whims.

 

Yesterday a cop switched lanes in front of me without signalling -- I decided not to pull him over.

 

I'm not saying explain to her in that situation, although that would be very helpful to help from escalating. I'm saying he needs to explain his reasoning to his boss (we tax payer) and if this go to court, there also.

I think you aren't saying that he has enough reason to handcuff as soon as he said she must exit.

Most people respect and know how to deal with situation when facing cops. I'm more concern about what cops should be doing and how they respond to people that don't know all the rules and laws, or maybe those that don't have the mental state to follow orders, or whatever other situation that may arises.

Again, one is trained and has much power, the other is who know. As a trained public servant given power, cop has much responsibility in how to use that power. I don't want cop as general, easily get agitated and when do so, abuses the power they have.

"I was going to just give you a warning" but then I didn't like you nagging and not liking my actions to pull you over and disrespecting me for not putting out a cig, so now I exercise my power to force you to exit the car. That's just not what we want cop out there to do.