Sure, but I wouldn't. I'm not going to sanction racism or segregation simply because of what might have happened to someone's ancestors. It's time to move forward and let go of the past if we are to make a better future. The people who feel the need to hold on to divisive symbols that once represented hate are those who need to die off in order for the world to be a better place. People need to stop passing that nonsense on to their children because it's setting us back as a people.
300 years of slavery and 100 years of institutionalized segregation has repercussions on the current condition African American are in today. Poverty is often inherited. A lack of education is often inherited. So no it's disingenuous to just forget it because it still affects us today.
what, like history class? so if those that respect the founders of the American civil rights movement "need to die off", what other fine parts of history and tradition need to be cut out? I'll lol if you're religious in any way.
In your mind, history class is the same thing as a currently operating segregated church or school? I know I'm not talking with the best and the brightest around here, but work with me a little bit.
"Divisive symbols that once represented hate" ->The cross of the Inquisition? ->The flag that was woven over Wounded Knee? I mean if your standard for "a divisive symbol that once represented hate" are the black churches where the Civil Rights Movement and MLK drew their inspiration from and which protected freed slaves from generations of discrimination that has got to be a pretty low standard. Might as well stop teaching history altogether, or maintain any tradition. and keep your social darwinism and insecurity out of whatever this is, please. I know you want me to "die off", but that hasn't stopped me from being moderately civil. I haven't even made fun of the fact that you can't understand the difference between court-enforced segregation and traditional norms and names based on history that aren't racially enforced at all--well, at least not yet.
Wow! Minorities (now majorities, why do we use that word?), especially black people, have every opportunity to flourish in this day and age. There's NO excuses.
Oh there's definitely a difference between court enforced segregation and voluntary segregation.....but both are indicative of racism. The fact that you don't understand that obvious fact is why we don't see eye to eye. Unsurprisingly you, and many here, have a very narrow view of what racism is.
No, the reason why we don't see eye to eye is that you refuse to discuss facts, history, and figures and your solution is to absurdly bury your head in the sand. Worse yet, you think other people should too. There's no real point bringing up facts and figures around continuing and compounding racial discrimination because you've somehow figured out that the only way to solve a problem is to ignore it, and I'm not about to become THAT invested if you wish to mire yourself in ignorance. but I'm kinda amused/shocked at the logical leaps you've taken to avoid that discussion and try to grab some high ground by portraying yourself as some "race-neutral" forward-looking social darwinism-loving moral visionary. This has led to an absurd line of reasoning where the brunt of your argumentation and condemnation has been against a set of cultural and traditional practices born to shelter blacks from systematic discrimination and responsible for the advent of the Civil Rights Movement-- a rich tradition which has now been recast as a "divisive symbol that once represented hate." I hope you've applied that "divisive symbol" line of thinking to your own beliefs (especially your religious ones if you hold any), and I hope you stay 500m away from any school, college or institution that values critical thinking and human life. (only slightly tongue-in-cheek here).
You make excuses for modern day racists based on what might have happened to their ancestors, I make no such excuses. It really is simple as that. You think segregation is acceptable if it is voluntary, I don't. You think that fixating on injustices of the past that might have affected ancestors is the best way to go forward, I don't.
Black colleges and neighborhoods were built by white mandate to prevent freed blacks from assimilating to white society in a meaningful enough manner to displace any middle, lower class or non-native speaking, illiterate whites. Black churches arose out of the same necessity in response to the same social quarantining by local institutions and organizations on behalf of marginally empowered whites. All three institutions remain black because while the country became prosperous enough that governments and institutions didn't need to forcibly stratify and compartmentalize blacks to for whites to survive economically, they remained socially and emotionally repulsed enough by blacks that they chose to withdraw from racially balanced environments and rebuilt their own societies as far away as possible.
So at the end of the day, your "solution" to why somebody murdered nine innocents in cold blood IN THE PRESENT due to racism is to 1) ignore continuing systematic racism and discrimination of all kind, 2) ignore history and 3) condemn black churches (and hell, why not all churches--what is the distinction of a symbol that once inspired hate again?), 4) hope for the best! All this while drawing a loose fiber of logical leaps that encapsulate cultural and historical traditions with mass murder. The irony is that Dylann Rain was allowed to come in and stay through mass until he saw fit to murder everybody there--meanwhile, you're arguing against the social and historical conventions that loosely form Chinatown and standing up as if that's been the problem all along. It's not the trend of race-based hate crimes aimed disproportionately at blacks. It's the fact that they all gather together at areas steeped in a tradition of civil rights and survival against systematic discrimination that continues to this day, safehavens that were banned by law time and again, or sacrileged with violence. Well, I guess that's that for the logical side of things. Good luck taking the moral high ground after you wished that everybody who argued against you should "die off for a better future."
We've now gotten to the point in the thread where Bobby is calling the nine murdered churchgoers "modern day racists".
Look up "race riots" in the Reader's Guide anytime before the mid-60s, it could get real ugly in a place like SC. I think Roof may get exactly what he wanted out of this.
A black church isn't the same thing as a white drinking fountain. No one is telling any white people they can't go to a traditionally black church and no one is telling black people that they have to go. They are there because the church is founded in their neighborhood most likely, neighborhoods that are largely black because of housing policies enacted in the past you don't want to talk about. They are there because the worship style is the style they have been raised with culturally. As for your ridiculous assertion that these people were modern day racists, their own death disproves it. They didn't stop a white young man from walking in off the street and joining them for bible study and prayer, and by his own admission they treated him so well he almost didn't kill them.
Seriously we're still arguing that black churches are segregationist and racist? Need we point out that they welcomed a white man to their Bible study last Wednesday?
See Justxyank beat me to it. A Black Church is about as racist and segregationist as Chinatown. They were founded because of racism and segregation but anyone can go to them.
Nobody is seriously arguing this, white power trolololing is fine now because the people have been dead for > 100 hours.
