It would be interesting to see Devin Goldenberg's response to people like Obama saying "it has nothing to do with Islam" when an Islamist blows up people or slaughters cartoonists and specifically says that he did it because of his understanding of Islam. Would he not have to say "you are a profile in cowardice" to Obama? Or would he not, because it wouldn't fit his political leanings?
You and I have had this discussion in one way shape or form on more than one occasion, Rocket River. I appreciate your insight, and the compliment (see...getting better...). I can understand your general sentiment here. I even concur, on most levels. I cannot be honest with myself about what I must do to live a peaceful and productive life in this country as a black man and pretend that there isn’t an insidious double-standard for me in relation to my other countrymen. The nice thing about a map is that it lets you know where the cliffs are, so that you’re not already over the side of it and halfway down before you notice it’s there…. I mentioned just recently in another thread that what I feel the key to overcoming this type of thing, for black people, is to take the lead on the conversation. In an eerie sort of dynamic, emotionally and spiritually, black people haven’t gotten off those auction blocks our ancestors stood on long ago…chained, bare-naked and up for sale to the highest bidder. In our lust and zeal to experience the “American Dream” from a perspective long denied us, the choice was collectively made to do what the white people and immigrants could understandably and admirably and courageously do…and that was to forget the past that brought them here. In a desire to effect peace, the narrative was often surrendered (many times, again to the highest bidder…and sometimes, not at all unlike that infamous past…a deal sometimes brokered by black people) in an attempt to absolve everyone from the need to, again, reconstruct a society that was by and large not constructed with individual merit, but corporate (business and social) contempt. And that was the wrong choice, I feel. But not for what you might believe. Slavery and segregation are not subjects that invoke pride or happiness in the American psyche, for black or white people. The slavemaster is as debased as the slave. The entire enterprise and subsequent legal segregation was awful, and it would only be natural in this day and age to want to distance oneself from it as quickly and completely as possible. In another space, that might be called evolution…or Ben Affleck… Someone from Germany or Eastern Europe could come here and forget about Nazi Germany or Fascist Italy or Communist Russia. Someone from China could come here and forget about Mao. Someone from Mexico could come here and forget about everything. But the progress America has made socially has come almost expressly from the fact that Black people cannot and should not forget that past. Only in that honest remembrance can both white people and black people confront and fix this thing that’s metastasized into our culture, masquerading as a “fair and balanced” or an alternative viewpoint, and crouching and skulking around the fringes of law to cover itself in the veneer of legitimacy and righteousness. For all the horror and death meted out by this man, I’m almost embarrassed to find as much sympathy for him as I do. If what he is reported to have said as part of his confession is true, then he had given his initial impetus pause, when met with the conflicting warmth and acceptance of those in that parish he was about to murder. I’m embarrassed because I wonder what might have been for him if, like so many people suggest, both black and white, he had not been so segregated and sheltered from encounters from people he probably had never really met or understood… ...I’m embarrassed for him because I listen and here from all these family members and acquaintances of his who are distancing themselves from him now…like roaches scattering under the glare of a hastily flickered light…when they more than likely shared, and conversed with him on numerous occasions about, his viewpoint…and are looking for absolution now in ways they would never afford a black person in the same situation…black people who have to acknowledge some of those same sentiments and still have to find a way to become a part of a society that many people would just a soon deny us… …I’m embarrassed for him because although he killed those people...they were probably luckier in the manner in which they died, than he was in whatever drove him to commit that act. Good things, I was told by my mother, Rocket River, tend to grow. There’s an awful of work involved…nothing glamorous…a lot of toil and trouble and no guarantee that anything you’re doing will work out the way you want…but once the seeds take root…you’re usually in business. Bad things, on the other hand, tend to spread…like a virus. It covers a lot of ground and makes one hell of a mess along the way…sort of like the way a spilled drink seems to cover a lot more area than was ever in the glass…but ultimately, the damage it causes is superficially. The answer is not in pulling apart or pulling away, to me, Rocket River. I believe that now more than ever, actually. If there’s a way home from this, my man, black folk have got to lead the way. We’re the only ones who know where this needs to go, and the best way to get there….
I hear what you saying but some i do not agree with Some I do. I cannot say anyone is lucky being dead .. . in any way form or fashion A person on my timeline posted a convo he had with a white guy The White guy said: He glad this happened so that we can finally have a conversation on Race his response was SHOCK . . . YOU GLAD 9 PEOPLE ARE DEAD SO WE CAN HAVE A CONVO ON RACE???? While he did not mean it that way . . .the response is a symptom of the glossing over affect Other than murdering 9 people. . . he seemed like a nice kid!!! Rocket River
Not sure what you mean by mitigating circumstances. But being mentally ill is a consideration in terms of how you handle him (prison vs. mental institution vs. death penalty). If he is a terrorist with no other affiliations - what other response could be taken? I think until today the political angle wasn't there. So yes, since he had a political agenda it is an act of terrorism. It will be interesting to see if there was any organization that "Inspire"d him. The difference here is that there is no positive thing that comes out of racism. There's a lot of positive that comes out of Islam as well as negative of course. I bet he cut his own hair.
Really? That is disgusting. What the **** is wrong with this country and causes us to hate each other so much?
What even more ironic is that an FBI study shows that armed citizens are able to stop a shooter 4% of the time, compared to 13% for unarmed citizens. Makes sense, a gun man is going to shoot you before you pull out your gun most of the time.
How would a gunman know that someone had a concealed handgun before they pulled it out? That doesn't make a lot of sense.
I got you, man. You're Malcolm...and I'm Martin. And that convo goes to my point...this can't be a problem that we continue to wait for white people to acknowledge and recognize. They need a perfect set of circumstances just to say that MAYBE there's a problem or three hundred here... I can't really change my sentiment on my compassion for this guy either, I'm afraid. He is going to pay the ultimate price for this, regardless of the show the system is making of his apprehension and the attempted sanitizing of his backstory. I just know in my own heart that black people are better than any standard some ridiculous white folks have ascribed to them. Nothing evidences that better for me than how those people died in that church. They died willing to accept a man unheralded and unpetitioned that had summarily condemned them just moments before. Most of the time in this world, we can't choose how we're going to die. Those people did nothing to deserve what happened to them. But how they chose to live...right up until that moment ended...is what's important to me. And that's why we've got to take the reins on any "race conversation" in this country. We have always had to live by a standard that other people won't even honestly acknowledge exists...and look to subsequently attach themselves to a nobility they didn't believe was there in the first place. This isn't about martyrdom for me...and I apologize if I give you or anybody that impression. Kinda STAR-TREKKIE of me to say this...but "...how we face death is almost as important as how we face life..."...
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dylann Roof's and Michael Slager's cells are right next to each other in Charleston jail. <a href="http://t.co/eEleY26on4">http://t.co/eEleY26on4</a></p>— USA TODAY (@USATODAY) <a href="https://twitter.com/USATODAY/status/611986012655501312">June 19, 2015</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
When you hear something that sounds kind of unbelievable, you really should try a google search to verify it before coming here and reposting it.
america was founded by traitors. we were the mujahideen to the english army. just a rag tag group of insurgents in a backwater against the civilized superpower. words like traitor and freedom fighter depend on which side won. it has nothing to do with right or wrong. history ain't some binary process its full of shades of gray. the south isn't the reason here. there are deeper problems that cause racism like education, types of jobs and inequality, where you live and welfare.
Bail is impossible with murder charges in South Carolina. The 1 million dollar bail is for his weapons charges but even if someone puts forth the million, he will still be in custody for the murder charges.
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Stewart's sentiments are evident in the very governor of the state that this attack occurred p***y footing around the issue and pulling a Bigtexxx:"We must wait for all the evidence" when it's so ****ing obvious why this racist bigot did what he did. No, we need Fox News to spin this as an attack on Christianity because it occurred in a church. **** these people.
Wow. Is he really trying to us this tragedy as a way to spin everything on "our" war against terrorism caused this guy to murder these people? Good grief, please retire already.
