THis guy was a certified racist, who planned on this a while back. He planned a civil war, wanted segregation and to make matters worse was on heavy drugs His friends and roommates knew about this and he openly talked to them about doing such a thing. It is about time people (friends) report any kind of suspicious behavior before it results in a tragedy like this
When even bigtexxx won't stand up for your cause and find a way to defend you, you know you dun' ****ed up.
Jon Stewart made some good points recently. SC has roads named after confederate generals (like us too) and called it racial wallpaper. That ish is ridic.
I don't see how there still any doubt that this person is a terrorist. Under any objective definition he meets that term. He used terror as a weapon, even to the point of letting one of his victims live so they could spread more fear. He had planned this for a long time. He had an overarching political agenda, reestablish segregation. He is as much a terrorist as the Tsarnaev brothers.
America has slave owners on currency, celebrates the birthdays of slave owners and people who hated gay people, saw women as nothing more than cattle, etc.
Further I don't understand the resistance for calling Roof a terrorist and this an act of terror. As I stated earlier it's not a matter of just how he's punished but of understanding what motivated him to do this, how was he radicalized, what sort of threat people like him represent and how do we possibly prevent it. Those are the reasons why the Tsarnaevs and the people who attacked the Draw Mohammed protests are labeled as terrorists because that helps put them in the context that they aren't just murderers but murders with an overarching purpose. All of these people have been self-radicalized and aren't officially part of other organizations but were heavily influenced from other sources. In the case of Dylann Roof we should be doing the same thing.
Because if he's a terrorist, we might have to respond in some significant way. If he's just another criminal then we have the luxury of doing nothing different.
I'm not sure about that, personally, rocketsjudoka. The United States' history of this type of action has, at its root, the "..race is a social construct..." theme as its undergirding. Setting aside any tangential or semantical definition of this horror for a moment... ...one of the most (if not in actuality THE most) difficult realizations about what spawns this type of action (and has spawned this type of action historically in this country)...strangely enough comes from the perpetrator himself...if he indeed uttered in the midst of this depravity the sentiment that his country was being taken from him. We have always as a nation had a very difficult time acknowledging that our society (particularly after the Civil War) was largely crafted to impose a social ceiling on its "black" or Negro populace. And one of the by-products of that construction has always been a second-class status within and without the "black" community in relation to everyone else. Anything a black person "achieves" in America has almost always been attended by the supposition that he did not "earn" it or is unworthy of it or was "given" his accomplishment in the stead of a deserving white person, as somehow reconciliatory compensation for the darker past of the United States in these areas. I'll speak candidly and openly, for once. I’m trying as best I can to fix those race-baiting, liberal-slave-mind afflictions of mine that pop up from time to time... ...I go to work every day (surprising enough on its own, given my communist/socialist bent) with the notion that I must prepare myself to deal with the fact that I will encounter more than a few people that doubt my particular ability at my job simply from looking at me. And the challenge is not whether or not I would encounter it…that was always inevitable…but how I would deal with it. If I were to listen to my white colleagues and co-workers, I’d almost be inclined to believe I don’t do a half-bad job, considering that somebody white probably should be doing my job instead. In the natural course, I have a hard enough time accepting any type of compliment anyway. My own personal neurosis notwithstanding…I learned that, professionally, the best option for me was to focus on what I knew to be unequivocally true about myself―no one can define for me what is right or wrong or just or unjust better than I can, if I’m willing to look at myself openly, honestly and contextually as a citizen (more or less) of the United States. I’m actually flattered anyone here is honest enough to call me a race-baiter. It’s always been about race for me, and for black people in America, in virtually every part of public life. We can no more say “…we don’t see color…” with a straight face than we can say that the sky is green or that grass is blue. Pretending that anything different than that is true is potentially fatal, on many levels. The problem with how anyone chooses to identify this soul who did this thing, for me, isn’t so much how this tragedy has already been shuttled off into the predictable and recurrent “…lone wolf…” or “…religious attack…” or “…mentally unstable…” bins for white people like this...or even from one local reporter in Charleston: “…something that black people could have prevented…” dissertation… …it’s part of the American creed that the past, in essence, doesn’t matter as much as the future does. …Except that the very second that we decide to forget the past, it becomes the present and possibly the future all over again. If there’s one thing we need to do as black people, it’s to listen to white people. It’s almost a foregone conclusion in these things that the default position black Americans take is to cry about being unheard or underrepresented or misrepresented. I’m honestly starting to feel surprised that there’s still this sentiment floating around. Granted, this has historically been an odd sort of one-sided conversation (strangely with Negroes in the middle of arguments between white people about what to do with or about us)… …but the truth of the matter is that the larger mistake by black people is to try to take the route on this that a lot of white people would like and prefer: and that’s to forget about it or “…get over it…” or call this something other than what it obviously or not-so-obviously is. Black people have to lead the way on whatever racial reconciliation is possible, because we’re the only ones that know where this has to go. And that journey challenges and threatens the concepts of merit and character and responsibility that so many white people have lived their lives believing was true of everybody. And it’s really just a simple as that, for me. When we talk about “good” and “evil”, rocketsjudoka, I’m always pleased to notice that the closest analogy I can consistently make is how things tend to work in nature. Good things, my mother used to say to me, tend to grow. It’s not an easy process…lot of sweating and toil and all manner of trouble…but once the roots take hold, the crops tend to do the rest. Bad things, though, tend to spread…like weeds or a virus or a drink that gets spilled and seems to cover a larger area than was ever in the glass. Bad things get around real fast and cause a lot of damage and make a mess of things in short order, but it’s usually just the surface. If this terrible thing is a “hate crime” or “domestic terrorism” or lone gunman crazy or whatever…that’s somebody else’s argument, rocketsjudoka. It shouldn’t be the argument of people who know better. And ultimately, are looking to DO better…
No it is a stretch. Two of the most racist places I have been are Chicago and Ohio and they fought for the Union and do not have a Confederate heritage. Hell, last I saw there were more active Klan members than any other state. It is a simplistic view that does not do justice to anyone. If you want to see racism, go to the South Side of Chicago and you will see the outcome of systemic racism..... go 30-40 miles outside of Chicago and ask the whites and hispanics that make up 90-95% of the population of what they think of black people and how many black people are in their town. As far as twisting this shooting into some sort of religious persecution situation, that is sick.... he killed those innocent people because they were black..... just like some muslim people blow up people because they do not believe in Islam.
Thorough and well said. The issue with things like this is that dismissing the motive means we don't have to look at it as a whole. In context. The totality of things the big picture. I think there is alot of people trying to intentionally see the trees instead of acknowledging the Forest how many isolate incidents make a trend? Alot of black people are beginning to question the sincerity of this country more than ever. While alot of lip service is going on . . . .maybe it is sinking in that . .. that is all it really is. There is no little to no real interest in stopping it. This man . . .walks into an all black church. He sits with them for an hour. Then he kills them Is the lesson to be learn --- be suspicious of all strangers esp white men. The church should NOT have opened its doors to THE STRANGER. [which totally undermines the ideals of the church but . .. . ] This man was politely arrested and handled with kid gloves. . . while Tamir Rice was killed upon 5 seconds of an encounter with the cops . . 5 seconds!!! Black people's encounters with the cops. . . unarmed . . .'suspected' at best . . ends with death and 'i feared for my life' Mass white killers end up with kid gloves and polite arrests [If you don't mind sir . . ] Mike Brown and Trayvon's Facebook accounts are shown . . .words like thugs, criminals are used White Mass Killers . . . words like polite. .. quiet . . . then later mental illness A Group of white people acting up is a . . party out of hand . . a few knuckleheads. . . a celebration . . . A Group of quiet black people protesting . . .is a riot . . . a near riot . . .almost open guerrilla warfare Cops show up to the first one . .. and chill and chat Cops show up to the second one in riot gear, tanks and shooting tear gas and pepper spray This is part of THE WHOLE . . . . the Narrative becomes a subtext of 1. IF black - they are evil and you should expect the worse 2. If White - It's a surprise and an anomaly 1. allows for more people to instantly FEAR FOR THEIR LIFE when they see black skin 2. Allows for more SURPRISE murders and mayhem Rocket River
Ah, if he was Muslim, even more so. Muslim that are crazy don't typically just target black. That would be a special type of crazy. As I said, not excusing, just pointing out how we don't deal with mental anything. The recent event with a guy shooting up the Dallas police HQ is a more classic case. This guy didn't just turn hatred racist out of the sack. I'm sure its a slow process of picking up layer after layer of hate. If he had have help earlier in life, maybe he could be pointed toward something positive. We don't have a system that encourage that type of society where those on a destructive path can get help. In fact, quite the opposite is what we have.
I know. Washington DC needs to be renamed, same with the state of Washington.... all of the streets and schools named "Washington" should be renamed..... George Washington owned slaves, it is racial wallpaper. Same thing with Thomas Jefferson.... Andrew Jackson needs to be taken off the twenty dollar bill.... Woodrow Wilson too, he went out of his way to make sure that it was illegal for a "negro" to apply to Princeton, he also fought hard to keep it illegal for a white to marry a black...he idolized the KKK. Teddy Roosevelt, a hundred years ago said that black people should not be allowed to procreate and called them apes. FDR was nearly as bad, keeping black folks out of the White House and not inviting Jesse Owens.... even though he invited all the white medal winners. Richard Nixon hated blacks and just about anyone else. So once these examples are taken care, those in their Northern Ivory Towers can then take a simple and short sighted solution to racism....... lets not look at the systemic poverty and lack of integration and educational differences..... lets blame it on the name of a road.
Exactly. There is this idea in America, that the real problems are because of someone else or another region/group. Liberals blame conservatives. Conservatives say it is those lazy minorities and duped liberals. The North blames the South and the Civil War that was 150 years ago. The South blames Washington DC. The reality is, this nation has a long and rich history or racism, oppression and just about every other type of oppressive behavior there is.... it isn't unique to the USA, but it should at least accepted as a reality. If Jon Stewart wants to get on television and come up with some simplistic BS reason, so be it..... but it doesn't help the situation. NEWS FLASH! There is inequality and racism, sexism and other negative behavior all across this country.
