Just want to point out a running joke with Stannis: 1) First time his sellswords abandoned him, they took horses 2) When Ramsay and his SEAL team attacked, the killed a bunch of horses 3) Stannis ordered the remaining horses killed for meat 4) The last time his sellswords abandoned him they took "all of the horses" 5) When Lady Melissandre left him, she rode a horse. LOL
In my opinion, yes. In political matters, I trust Stannis to keep his word. That's what I meant by "honorable". But he is still capable of monstrous acts. He is willing to kill innocent people to achieve his political ambitions. But that is also in line with historically "great" men -- e.g. Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great. We remember these men as great heroes of history, but they did terrible things along the way.
Which was a failure ultimately depending on what you believe his reasoning was. People here claim he went there to rally the North to his cause (failed.) While there he tried to recruit Jon Snow (failed) or the Wildlings (failed.) He gained nothing from it, so it was a failure for him. If you believe Roose Bolton, Stannis was intent on marching on King's Landing and for some reason believed he needed to go through Winterfell to get there. If that is true, it's just an all around fail. Sorry, Stannis was a big failure who committed monstrous acts during his failure. He wasn't honorable when he rescued Jon Snow. He didn't do it for the realm. He did it EITHER to add to his army or because he had a stupid invasion strategy. So, selfish or stupid, but not honorable. I can't really think of one thing he did that was "honorable." We were told about his honor and his justice and his brilliant military strategy, but we certainly never saw it. His only victory was marching a professional army with cavalry into a camp of wild lings and routing them.
The horses were burned I thought, but maybe I misheard. Still, Stannis is a sorry excuse for a military commander. 500 guys deserted because of the snow-nobody noticed until the next day. 20 Navy Seals manage to sneak into his camp and light fires that (according to the report) burned all of his siege weapons and some large amount of horses and his supply lines. Then HALF HIS ARMY manages to mount ALL OF THE HORSES in the night and ride off and nobody notices until the next morning. Then he marches half an army, on foot, through the snow to lay siege to one of the best castles in the country with no siege weapons and very little provisions. Sorry, Stannis sucked. Good riddance. The only brains in his entire operation was Daavos.
I think matching on the castle was basically intentional suicide. He was hollow after Shireen, and after Melisandre split he was done.
One was shown running on fire, but I think the horses were only referred to as having been killed. He definitely asked that the dead horses be butchered for the men. At that point, he was going to fulfill his supposed destiny or he was going to die. He wasn't going to keep waiting, because nothing good was going to come from it.
Ultimately, yes you can say that. He still saved Jon from death, and conquered the vast Wildling army in battle. It was his best chance to reinforce his army and obtain their allegiance. It was a good gamble that ultimately didn't work out. The strategy makes sense to me. He had already tried taking King's Landing directly, unsuccessfully. His strategy this time was to go through the North and secure his hold there first. I don't remember the details of what was said while Stannis was at Castle Black. From what I recall, he treated Jon with respect, and he didn't coerce him to join on the expedition though he could have done so. If Mance agreed to his offer, I believe Stannis would have firmly stuck to his word. I don't deny that he was ultimately selfish. Stupid? Maybe. I think daring/fearless, bordering on reckless, is a more apt description.
Does anyone else think a more interesting demise for Stannis would have been him being skinned by the Boltons, rather than executed (painlessly, I assume) by Brienne on the battlefield?
Yes you are right. He is honorable in that he would not have burned Mance Rayder alive had Mance fought for him. LOL (Except that he did burn people alive that supported him for not joining the religion of Melissandre) He was stubborn, selfish and delusional. His military tactics failed at every turn, he couldn't control his own army and he is apparently a heavy sleeper that doesn't wake up to half his army riding out on horseback. Vader would force choke him for sure.
Stannis is obviously still alive. if they don't show the character die on screen then they are still alive..
I mean, everything I said was purely theory. The shows have caught up with the books. The show watchers at this stage know as much as book readers, and are just as blind as them. What you read is simply what a lot of people are discussing, doesn't mean it's true (People speculated Benjen Stark was making a return after a lengthy focus on him during a recap). It's really not spoiling anything at this point because it's pure speculation. The last book was released 4 years ago, and viewers will be waiting for a long dreaded year before the next season. Jon Snow is arguably the most popular character in the series, it's only natural people will look for any evidence to point towards his survival. If you were just watching the show are doing absolutely nothing else, then Jon Snow's survival should be something that is quite clearly hinted. The Lord of the Light's ability to revive the dead has already been established (Remember the brotherhood without banners? The man who wielded the flaming sword but lost against the Hound). The white walkers have demonstrated the ability to revive the dead. Literally the 2nd final scene of the finale was of a revived monster (conveniently transitioning to the betrayal scene right after). Also, why would they deliberately show you Melisandre's arrival to castle black? The same woman that had a strange obsession to Jon Snow? The same woman whose God showed the ability to revive the dead? The same woman who demonstrated magic power herself? All these hints, combined with the fact that Jon Snow's plotline is not even near complete (who is Jon Snow's mother?), and the fact that he is the most popular character in the show, practically spells out the odds of Jon Snow's survival.
Guys, are we not going to talk about the ridiculous Dorne scene? Let me get this straight: 1. Ellaria decides to poison Myrcella by kissing her (aka nice hamfisted chekhov's gun from the Tyene scene) 2. Myrcella begins to suffer the effects of the poison while the ship is STILL within sight of the shoreline and can very well return! 3. Oh and you just poisoned the Martell's last link to the Lannisters WHILE Trystane is in their possession!?! What
I have a feeling that Oberyn's wife (Iforgethername) felt the only way the king/whatev of Dorne would fight the Lannisters is if he felt like he had to. Like, if, say, Trystane was in danger.
I said it was awful awful awful and just left it at that. I want to pretend Dorne never happened. So Myrcella collapsed that quickly from the poison (recall that it took a long time for it to impact Bronn) but Elaria had to have it on her lips for quite awhile leading up to the kiss yet it impacted her at roughly the same time? Whatever, who cares. Myrcella is dead and the Lannisters have the only heir to Dorne under their control. So maybe Elaria would believe Doran will march to war, but of course, if the Lannisters just execute Trystane (which they'd have no reason NOT TO), Elaria will be executed as well. Haha, oh well. I just hope this ultimately leads to more screen time for Dr. Bashir as I like him.
I wouldn't rule it out. GRRM is probably keeping that ambiguous to give himself more options later on down the line. We saw how much of a weakling Meryn Trant was. Syrio Forel is the first sword of Braavos, literally one of the best fighters in the world. Sure, he had a broken sword, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the symbol of Braavos is also a statue of a man wielding a broken sword.
