Big Terrance Jones supporter here. My post history will back that up. He flat out wasn't good enough in the playoffs two years in a row. That is a fact. He flashed at times and had his good moments as well as bad moments just like EVERY other player on the roster did during this playoff run. He made some huge plays and had a bunch of underwhelming and head scratching moments too. All in all though, if I had to give him an overall evaluation, he wasn't good enough. Could DMo have done better? You can only hope so, but we'll never know. You can't base that assumption off of regular season performance. The playoffs is a different ballgame. Last year DMo wasn't really a rotation player and thus was unable to prove his worth and this year he got hurt so in all honesty, he is an even bigger question mark in my mind in regards to what he would bring in a playoff scenario when the game changes. His skillset says he would have helped, but right now, this is all just a guessing game. From a numbers and production standpoint, Jones has been a better regular season player the past two years, but hasn't been able to translate his regular season success to the playoffs. Assuming DMo will at this point is only an assumption. You don't know how guys will perform when the game slows down, teams prep for you, and the pressure is ratcheted up to its highest level. I think he would have definitely helped in some situations and hurt us in others. I wish that we could actually have a real conversation about it after having watched it, but unfortunately, a late season injury robbed us of that. As far as Jones, what I do feel like right now though, is that Jones in his current form without significant improvement, is not the answer at starting PF going forward. He can be serviceable in a role, but he is not the future unless he plugs the holes in his game. He needs to rebound and defend better at a minimum. Any improvement to his jumpshot would also be welcome. That said, the biggest disappointment for me wasn't his holes, we know he isn't a plus shooter, but he failed to maximize things that we considered to be his strengths going into the playoffs such as finishing around the basket. He didn't rebound well and didn't create very many opportunities off the dribble.
Sure, he may have been integral in the Celtics' run to the playoffs. But look at their roster. Avery Bradley is 24. Evan Turner is 26. Marcus Smart is 21. Isaiah Thomas is 26. Jared Sullinger is 23. Meanwhile, Brandon Bass is 30. Do you really think he's part of their rebuilding plan? I watched every playoff game and most of the regular season. Sure, he beasts against weaker teams, but against teams that are aware of his weaknesses, he's a liability. The Clippers and Warriors embarrassed him. At this point, not only is he not perfect, but he's not even good enough to be a rotation player on a championship team. You may call it nitpicking, but the criticisms I listed are fundamental weaknesses (getting lost in the offense/poor rebounding positioning/can't shoot but tends to roam the perimeter) that negatively impact the entire team's performance. He does have the raw tools to develop into a good NBA player, but we're in a win-now mode, he's our 3rd string PF, and 3rd string PF's are easily replaced. Also, he's been in the league 3 years, and he still has fundamental weaknesses in his game. If possible, we should trade him for an upgrade at a position of need (pg, backup sg).
What's McHale's evaluation, in your estimation? He benched Jones for Smith, who was previously benched himself. He doesn't have the capability to trade players, he has to play who he has.
The Warriors series isn't equal to "The entire playoffs". I agree that Jones stunk it up at times in the playoffs, and seemed to have more trouble that usual finishing around the rim (one can speculate why). However he was far from being bad the entire playoff series run. During the pivotal games 5 and 6 in the Clippers series, Jones really was huge for the team. As the lone big who can actually shoot free throws, he really got the team through some sticky situations when they were forced to go small. Now I totally support Morey trading him if there is quality value he can get in return. I also support trading him if the Rockets can replace him with a solid veteran versatile big like a Brandon Bass if they can sign him after other roster moves are made at the veteran minimum. What I CANNOT support is the notion that the Rockets do not need him, that he is easily replaceable at that contract level, and that they need to trade him ASAP because of various made up reasons. The Rockets for one reason or another HAVE NEEDED him the past two years. Why anyone would all the sudden think that they don't need him now when - A. Smith might not even be coming back B. D-Mo is coming off back surgery and C. We have no idea if Morey can get a solid backup big with similar talents at the vet min in late July & August is beyond me. Right now, the Rockets absolutely NEED him if they want the depth and insurance at the big spot to compete. I hope that they end up not needing him next year, but right now, its completely obvious that they do. Hopefully we can get A, B, and C answered soon this offseason, and then have an objective conversation about trades involving Jones instead of hate mongering a player that has saved our butts for two seasons in a row when we needed somebody.... anybody. I'll just leave it at that.
Do you disagree that Jones is not a good finisher at the rim? Or that he is a poor, inconsistent jump shooter? That he appears too timid during adversity in games? That he has shown no ability to play a strong positional game on defense? That he can't box out anyone to save his life? (Regardless of how good he is, this is THE #1 problem.) That his play results in Dwight Howard being hung out to dry repeatedly? In my opinion, what he does bring is: Good weakside blocking Streaky shooting Long arms I struggle past that. The price tag to replace him is not high, considering that what we're replacing is not unique in any way. The Rockets NEED him because he is a warm body filling the PF spot - the same way we needed Terry and Prigioni last season.
He is 22, was balling earlier in the year - he is still really young. Trade him if you must but only to get a veteran who can help now. DD
I'll let this rest after this post, but answer just one more time these recycled arguments against Jones. I actually think he's been a solid finisher around the rim up until this postseason coming off of pretty much a season long injury. Not saying the timidness and the moment had nothing to do with it, but I think it had something to do with it. Before the injury he was a solid finisher. The guy has weaknesses. There is no doubt. He isn't a shooter, and will never be. What Jones' strength and skill is would be his versatility, and multi-use functionality. He moves well without the ball on offense, knows the defensive rotations, can alter shots, and rarely makes mistakes & turnovers. Oh, and he's the one big on the Rockets that can actually shoot free throws, and gives the Rockets their version of small ball lineup like the Warriors have with Green at the 5. As you mentioned the warm body rotation player thing. Even competent warm bodies for contending teams such as Terry, Prigioni, and especially back up bigs... warm bodies or not, they cost... ALOT traditionally. Prigioni cost two second rounders. Terry made a mid-level contract last year on our cap. My fear, if someone like BBhollic was running the show, is that Jones making a rookie salary is traded in June for a 2nd round pick, then come July the Rockets lose Smith to a larger deal in free agency. D-Mo struggles coming back from back surgery. And lastly, the Rockets are only looking at vet min options like Kurt Thomas type of journeyman players to fill that role. All of that happens, and Morey ends up at the deadline spending multiple 2nd round picks, a first rounder, or whatever (like he had to with Prigioni) on a player probably similar to Jones when they already had one on the roster back in June that they gave up because they felt secure with resigning Smith, and D-Mo's back surgery wasn't that bad that he could come back from easily. So I'm just saying why can't we just give the guy credit for what he's done to help the team over the past two years, and why do we feel the need right this second to ship him off like a leper? I hope they don't but the Rockets might really need someone like Jones, and they might have to pay big to get that type of player when they already have one on the roster for nothing.
You keep citing his versatility...are you serious he brings no versatility whatsoever he can't even guard his own position well, and cant box out to rebound over them. He rarely makes mistakes or turnovers? Again you are being biased to the point i dont even think its you posting, he is a turnover waiting to happen when the ball is in his hands unless hes 2 feet from the rim which is probably why his turnovers are so low...then hell get blocked going up for a layup Your fear is pointless cuz that would never happen and its not feasible that any gm even if isiah thomas was a gm that he would make a trade like that....you use him as part of a package to get any pg available hopefully someone like lawson, and then can draft any pf with the 2nd rnd pick that would 100% bring what Jones has and more ex: Christmas from Cuse And with Dmo back healthy he would most certainly be our 5 in a small ball lineup , to compare jones to green is utter idiocy, he is a bad basketball player period, and you or any other pro jones poster cant state any Strength he has except verstaility when he doesent even offer that...while other anti jones poster including myself have again and again cited and named 6-7 weaknesses he has and doesent seem to work hard enough to improve. And he is also a BAD free throw shooter at 66%...he does nothing right except weakside help period
You also have to consider the caliber of opponent. He looked especially bad in the postseason b/c the opposing defenses had Deandre Jordan and Bogut/Green. Sure, he can dominate weak frontcourts, but we wont see weak frontcourts in the later rounds of the playoffs. No he doesn't. In fact, this is one of his greatest weaknesses. He's not a shooter, but usually ends up on the perimeter. He actually makes a lot of mistakes, but they don't always impact the stat sheet. For instance, if he gets a defensive rebound, instead of looking to throw an outlet pass for a potential transition basket, he'll start dribbling the ball upcourt. And even though he has good ball-handling skills for a PF, he has poor court vision. Or, while on offense, he'll let himself get stuck on the perimeter where he's useless. Not only does that ruin the Rockets' floor spacing, it greatly reduces the chance of an offensive rebound. Motiejunas' 3 pt % went from 25% in 2014 to 37% in 2015. That's a huge jump. There's no reason why he can't improve his FT%, especially since he has a fluid shooting form. Also, both Jones and Motiejunas averaged 60% from the FT line. Wouldn't the Rockets first wait to see the result of Smith's free agency before making a move on Jones? And what's wrong with vet min options? Guys like Scola, Dalembert, and Kendrick Perkins could make a difference in the playoffs. Because we're in win-now mode, Jones is very raw and has only improved marginally in his 3 years in the league, and he's potentially 3rd on the depth chart. Because of his potential, he's worth more to rebuilding teams than to us. Similarly, seasoned vets are worth more to us than they are to rebuilding teams.
Brandon Bass wont sign for the vet min. Scola on the other hand... Didnt Cyber say that the Rockets were looking to sign Scola a month or so ago?
The pg spot is a much bigger problem than jones-donuts at the 4. Ideally, if healthy, Jones-donuts-howard can man all the 4/5 minutes. If jones and donuts continue their progress, then they both can be signed for 5-6m each and the rockets would have max player production at a good price that would give them flexibility. I dont know why its so hard to understand.
Apparently the NBA doesn't allow you to have more than 2 bigs on your roster anymore. The Rockets have needed him in the past as a security blanket when things weren't working out with other PF options. There is no reason to think that with the question marks the Rockets have going into this Summer, they wont need him again. No, he's not going to dominate a Western Conference Finals series, but he's not that kind of player to begin with. If you are relying on Terrence Jones to NOT do Terrence Jones things, and are asking him to do more, you have bigger problems to address. If they gotta trade him, trade him, but needlessly throwing him into every damn trade proposal just for the sake of dumping him, and making excuses about how the Rockets want to get rid of him before he makes it to free agency..... its just excuses. I've given up trying to make people understand because they just wont. Most people just spit vitriol at the guy like he personally wronged them. Very much a mob mentality with little objective reasoning behind the guys stay with the Rockets. I'm not really even a big Terrence Jones fan myself, but I just don't understand what the big problem is with the guy on a very personal level.
I think he can do alot more. He's a young guy trying to fit vs an older guy like josh smith forcing things. He's a good ballhandler and passer. His post game is consistent when given the chances. Jones is the kind of player who has to engage. He floats at times ,but so did horry. I think you run pick and roll and high low with him and howard or him and a guard,doesnt matter. This year was a big setback because of injuries. When you have nerve damage,there isnt rehab for it like a knee,nerves just has to regenerate at tbeir own pace like peyton manning neck. He never looked the same to me in terms of explosion and he's still a high rate finisher around the rim.
David West? I think Jones is much like Tyler Hansbrough but without that extra layer of gritty toughness. If he doesn't play more consistently or add more to his game he will become a back up somewhere else and eventually wash up completely...
Very well said. The hate in the garm thats put on this kid is very unwarranted, his nerve injury to his leg was brutal. He's thrown in every dream trade scenario like a piece of garbage by mostly uneducated basketball posters. His 500+ playoff minutes will pay dividends down the road as he gets older giving him valuable experience. I also like DMO as well and hopefully he can heal from his back injury and finally get some playoff experience under his belt next season.
Mchale said Jones lost his confidence in his interview the other day. When he played with confidence we've seen what his has to offer to this team. I really don't understand all the backlash a lot of people on here throw at him either dobro. My thing is that nerve injury and rib injury probably wasn't 100% healed yet. A lot of people tends to ignore those types of facts. I am pretty sure a healthy Terrance Jones would've played much better than he did in this years post season.
I think he is included in most trade proposals is because the Rockets lack the small and medium sized contracts needed to facilitate a trade for a player like Lawson or Lowry. Plus, Terrance has some positive value for many teams and is not just a contract. You can't, realistically, get a trade done for one of those guys without a guy like Jones or DMo going out along with Papa and Prig.
Everybody not named Harden and Howard are included in most of the trade proposals, not just Jones. They're all assets is what Morey stated several times. So lol it doesn't take a rocket scientist to muster up an conclusion that Jones might have been included in some of those trade proposals. The problem was he was injured and trying to recover. Therefore I believe nobody wanted to take a chance on acquiring an injured player.
The point is he is being included in CF imaginary scenario trades, not necessarily Morey trade proposals.
I don't buy the "injury" argument. He just finished his 3rd season under McHale, and he still gets frequently lost in the offense. Is that b/c of his injuries? He's poor at rebounding and boxing out. Is that b/c of his injuries? Jones is included in most trade proposals b/c he's expendable and, b/c he's young and full of potential, has value to rebuilding teams. It makes perfect sense. He's expendable b/c he and Josh Smith have a similar playing style, but Josh Smith is a much better player. Additionally, we need a reliable 3rd string PF/C, and that usually means a seasoned veteran; rebuilding teams don't need seasoned veterans.
