If the Rockets were to trade Jones now for what his trade value might be (lets say quality 2nd round pick), and only retained D-Mo & Smith, is it impossible to see a situation where- A. D-Mo struggles coming back from BACK SURGERY and either misses time, or has alot of rust to knock off and B. Josh Smith either goes through moments of struggling offensively, or just not reliable as your only option at PF for moments during the season or postseason and those circumstances during the season leading Morey to actually use A GREATER VALUED pick to pick up a veteran or young big man who can play the role that Jones essentially plays for the Rockets consistently at the same or possible even a lower level of production on some nights???? Oh and that player might also have an expiring contract much like the Brewer, Smith, Terry situations of this past year.... and its highly likely their contract value will be significantly more than Jones is making next year. ........... So before people keep throwing out this suggestion that the Rockets need to move Jones because he's an expiring contract, realize that there is significant risk/reward to consider. I'm not a "JONES ONLY FAN" like BBHOllic/Jopat likes to think I am, but I am a realist that see's significant value in keeping Jones as you move into this until you get more firm answers to the future moving forward with your PF position. Until I see Smith retained, and D-Mo come back healthy I don't like the prognosis of trading him prematurely. Even then, as I noted there is still risk with injury and poor play. Lastly, you factor in the cost of replacing something with the equal value of Terrence Jones in a free agency pickup this Summer. Easier said than done. Lots of folks will say something like..."oh Ed Davis was a vet min player this year"... well he was because of the year before last year, and he won't be this next year when he demands significantly more. Brandon Bass, a player of most likely equal value on the court, made more than the MLE last year, Marcus Morris and Patrick Patterson.... above MLE value as well. You have a bargain year you can take advantage of as a contending team. Why you'd want to forgo that value when you could very well take advantage of it later on I have no earthly idea.
A mid second round pick is NOT the going trading value for a 22 year old pf who is in the rotation of the wcf. This has to stop. People who say it have no idea of the market. Please stop repeating such bullcrap.
Jones was one of the reasons the rockets were even playing against the warriors LOL. Go back and look at the tape of Clippers series in the game 6 come back and the bashing on this kid has gotten to the point of ridiculous now. Also Smith had a hard time checking Griffin as well cuz Griffin unlike the regular season was playing balls to the wall.
I know this in response to my post so just respond. Who is giving the Rockets a 1st round pick or more for Jones? What evidence do we have out there that supports this notion? It seems IMO that Jones, based on what he brings, and his contract, that he's going to valued based on immediate production. You are essentially talking about contending or competitive teams with a need at PF wanting that help now. You are probably eliminating teams looking at him as a future star they can build around (although they would get his bird rights). I could see a situation where a team like the Warriors needs to move a higher priced player like David Lee, but still needs big man depth wanting to trade for him. Is a team like the Warriors going to even have first round picks to give up??... maybe. The Celtics.... maybe. The Heat... he'd be a good young player for them to pick up and play alongside Bosh & Whiteside, but do they even have picks? These are the situations and teams you are looking at. So tell me... what am I missing here. How is Terrence Jones more valued anywhere else outside of where he is valued for the Rockets.... a team that is a contender and has definite questions marks at the PF spot as far as depth and future is concerned? This is exactly why I don't think he's a player the Rockets would seek to trade just for the sake of trading. They are a team that has a need now for him, and could REALLY use him in the future if one of their other PF ventures goes down (injury, free agency, or poor play). Tell me a team that potentially NEEDS him more than the Rockets do, or might in the near future.
Today's Landry, said with regret: That's an insult to Landry who HAD a legitimate face up jumper and decent post moves. He COULD create for himself, Jones can't CL has lost a lot in the wake of his injuries, and for that I am regretful. I always liked the guy. TJo played through a plethora of mind-affecting physical issues this year and his growth is either permanently stunted or with a clean, healthy summer he's on the precipice of being a very nice rotation piece. I do not know what to think, what to expect. I suspect he has fair trade value but what does the brain trust I trust think? They know TJo a whole lot better than I pretend to. This I do believe: there is no room for a 4 upgrade + DMo (keep him!!!), TJo and JS.
Lee can't get on the court for GSW yet we covet him for 15m? C's have TJo level with Olynyk, Sullinger, Jerebko and even Bass. They're the ones who need exponential growth from within or exponential upgrade from without. The Heat? Does TJo get the Godfather back to p/o's, let alone home court? Jones is a dilemma IMO. Too good to; not good enough. (I do wonder if he is a P-Jax kind of guy. But, what in hey could they offer?)
-Where is that PF upgrade? and is it a definite he's coming to Houston? -D-Mo... just had back surgery. Are we confident he's 100% next year? -Smith - are we sure he's coming back? Are we confident in him consistently playing at a high level if he does come back? If there is a logjam come January then sure, we probably should move either Jones or D-Mo. However is there REALLY a log-jam there right now with all of the question marks just mentioned?
All question marks that result in the conclusion "Is he really worth that much" on the market when we can't even find a suitor who NEEDS him more than the Rockets need him? Malakas was offended that some would suggest his "Value" is probably more or less in the 2nd rounder range? Well isn't value or worth equal to whatever a buyer will pay for something? Whose paying the Rockets a first rounder for Terrence Jones, and who actually has the means to pay such for him? And if the Rockets got in a sticky situation later on next season what would they be willing to give up to acquire depth at the 4/5 on the same level of talent when they are about to enter a playoff run? (also - those were not trade suggestions mind you. I was merely looking at scenarios or teams that might want someone like Jones next year more than the Rockets would)
I didnt think here was a need to quote? Whats the problem what evidence you want? Im not an insider and cant give you info from the front office dealings. All I can offer is the historic abudant evidence that supports my claims. To find a trading partner you need to know the teams needs. Currently teams interested to fill holes at pf on top of my head are Utah Washington Toronto Sacramento Phoenix Detroit. Minny. Nuggets interested in all spots except center same as Knicks. Indiana and Miami need cheap rookie contracts. Chicago wants to play faster and wants to improve the athleticism of their frontcourt and they are looking to trade Taj so there is a possibillity there as well. Maybe I forget some. Then you look at assets available. Obviously very high first picks are off the table. The more likely candidates who have matching in value assets are washingtons first torontos first , ross , taj straight up, chicagos first , snell (in case they get ross) one of utahs future first,not their own i think they have okcs? +their early second . One of pheonix young guard prospets since they think to draft a guard YET again. I can thinj of more targets if you want.
I've said repeatedly that Jones had his moments in the playoffs. Game 1 vs the Mavs. The last 6 minutes of the 4th quarter in Game 5 vs the Mavs. Games 5-7 vs the Clippers. Game 4 vs the Warriors. The problem is the rest of the time he was either weak or invisible. It's not that I don't like Jones, but we can do better at backup PF. We shouldn't have to settle for a player who only performs well about 30% of the time. Maybe Jones can improve. He is only 23 and his season was pretty much derailed by injuries on two separate occasions. But if the Rockets do resign Smith and D-Mo can return to form off of the back injury, there won't be much playing time for him with the Rockets two deep at both the 5 and 4. Plus there's no way Morey and Les will be handing out big extensions to D-Mo, Jones, and Dwight(and paying Smith whatever he gets) come 2016. I just don't see where Jones fits unless Smith bolts. And even in that scenario, I'd still be very surprised to see him here past the trade deadline.
Jones isn't good enough to overcome his inconsistency. His offense will come and go but his lack of defensive awareness will remain terrible. I could totally live with his no-shows offensively IF he could play any semblance of team defense. Unfortunately, he can't.
Where, indeed? First we believe we need a solid add at the 1/2. Second, we believe we need a solid add at the b/u 5 (DMo?). Third, we lust for Love. Is he walking in the door? What's the prop bet on that? DMo will be physically fine. I had worse back surgery 'in the dark ages' and was on the court again in 90 days (ok, that led to my 2nd back surgery...). DMo has the world class resources and is a world class professional athlete. I believe. Smith? If he leaves (I'd be very surprised, but...) then the logjam is gone. I believe TJo is the biggest ? and should not be dumped but cannot be maxed on the market. The team that enters the p/o's next year will not be the team lacin'm up on 11/1. DM the GM is just not a stand-pat guy.
February is the worst time to trade a rfa to be. Because the team who trades for one does so for two reasons. A) bird rights so they can match offer sheets B) immediate help for a playoff contender who had an injury at that spot and needs cheap replacement. If Jones is involved in trade talks that means that the Rockets do not want to keep him and thus he can be stolen in free agency without having to trade any assets for. If he was a max caliber rfa to be the bird rights would make sense. But he is not. Therefore his value gets lower. This all provided that until then he doesnt have a breakthrough but remains about the same.
You can think of all the "potential" targets you want, but it doesn't impact NEED. The Rockets, with a few things here and there NOT going there way this Summer and with another injury again to either of their two projected PF's (assuming of course Smith resigns) leaves them NEEDING someone like Jones more than pretty much any other team out there. We can argue value all you want. Lord knows BBHollic tries all the time to argue trade value. Just like with real estate, your house is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If someone came up to me today and offered me 200% of what my house was worth, I'd probably move. If Morey hasn't accepted quality picks for Jones before in the past there is probably a really good reason for that. The more time goes on, the more question marks come up at the PF spot, and the closer the Rockets get to being a serious contender next year...... The more Terrence Jones' value WITHIN THE ROCKETS is raised up in comparison to what the market has apparently dictated in the past. Not pro or anti trading Jones here. Just trying to help people temper their expectations that the "Loathed" Terrence _Ones might still be a Rocket next year for very valid reasons.
You said to give you examples of teams giving back assets worth much more than a mid second. I did. So? Now will you accept that the idea of Jones worth only a mid second is ridiculous? Im not advocating necessarilly trading Jones. Just stating facts. Fact 1 : his value is much more than some people who I would label haters want you to believe and you wrongly keep repeating. Fact 2 : any rfa trading value like he is, diminishes in the last year of the contract unless he is max caliber which he isnt.
Count I agree with you to a certain extent, but I feel one of either Jones or DMO will be moved before next years trade deadline as anyone would think that the rockets won't resign them both unless like you say Smith bolts. If Jones can help them get that playmaking PG in a package deal I'm all for it and the same goes with DMO. The rockets are a solid playmaking PG away from getting to the finals IMO and their not a perfect team just like the rest of the league.
I agree with Fact 1, but the funny thing is, those people you mentioned are the ones who advocate trading him the most.... which I find hilarious, and shows that their devotion to team success probably comes second to personal pride or whatever stubbornness is hindering their agendas. Am I wrongly repeating that his value is a 2nd round pick..... maybe but we have no evidence either way on what his true value is because we have NO BUYERS on the market making competitive offers to get Morey to trade him so we just have to assume his value is below "Great Value" to say the least. You gave me examples of teams that could want him. I agree, there are teams that can potentially want him. They might even have a ton of picks to expend like say the Celtics who have more than enough. A team like that just as an example. The only point I'm trying to make is given the Rockets question marks going into this Summer, how would we justify that those type of teams actually have a NEED for Jones' services more than the Rockets do? My response isn't really directed at you FYI. I think you know this. Its mainly for the people who are just assuming the Rockets need to trade him ASAP because of his free agency or whatever. That's complete crap, and should be a non-issue for this team based on what I've laid out. The Rockets are the very team that could actually give up more assets than they received for Jones for a player of equal or less talent/versatility at the 4/5 later on next season as they make a race for the playoffs and have depth issues. That value is strictly based on IMMEDIATE NEED on the basketball court to win games. Hopefully that makes sense, and tempers peoples expectations to pump the brakes on raising their "Trade Jones ASAP" banners right this second. (something tells me it wont make a damn bit of difference because those who hate Jones, just hate Jones and will never be reasoned with even when you are agreeing with them)
Not necessarily. The Rockets needs and evaluations are constantly changing. This is no longer a team trying to win a playoff series. This is a team that made the Western Conference Finals and is competing for a championship next season. I would not be shocked or even remotely surprised if Jones and/or DMO are dealt in a trade for a point guard or assets to get a point guard.
