2014/2015 European Football Thread

You're completely correct about Sterling and Markovic but Can has been a revelation for Liverpool this season imo and the fact you mention him playing right back doesn't diminish what he brought to Liverpool this season. Versatility and ability in central midfield and center back. He was a bright spot for them this season.
Ibe is a quality young player and will continue to develop well at Liverpool imo.

I hate that "Feeder Club" moniker because damn near every club that isn't Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Barcelona is a "Feeder Club."
I mean, while Liverpool sold Owen and Torres(technically the Torres sale wasn't the same as the Owen sale. Liverpool cashed out smartly re. Nino. Torres was on the downside and they could see that.) United sold Ruud to Madrid(SAF also was selling high at that point and made the right decision) but United sold Cristiano to Madrid and had NO choice but to do so. That's what feeder clubs do. They have no choice but to sell to the club offering the player higher wages/better competition, etc. Every club is a feeder club for the most part except those three I mentioned above.

 

If Can has been a revelation, Liverpool is in huge problems. He's like a John O'Shea, can play multiple positions, but none of them at a very high level. Decent squad player, but should be a reserve filling in.

Liverpool were a much better team with Torres on form, but he realized that he wasn't winning a title with them so he left. Fortunately for Liverpool, injuries and a shot confidence destroyed Torres after that. In retrospect it was a good move, but it doesn't change the fact that he was their star and had to sell him to a bigger club. Ronaldo was a boyhood Real Madrid fan, so it's no wonder that he wanted to go there. Torres was not a boyhood Chelsea fan, notice the difference? Ronaldo is the only star player that Utd had to sell and didn't want to sell. There were many others like Ruud, Jaap Stam, David Beckham, Roy Keane. But they had bust ups with Fergie, and that was it for them and he sold them. There's a difference.

Barca and Real Madrid are the pinnacle of the sport to most players around the world, they can pay the most expensive fees, the highest wages, always competes at the highest level and has a nice climate. But you still can't compare teams like Bayern, Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd and PSG to a team like Liverpool. Those destinations are way more attractive to top talent and has a much better chances keeping players longer because they have won titles in the last years and have the financial means to compete with those clubs.

Liverpool haven't won the league in 25 years and don't have the finances to compete. Another example last night was Sterling telling them he wants to leave to fulfil his potential. Liverpool are the definition of a feeder club.

 

That's true that pretty much all teams are developmental teams for Barca and Real Madrid. However LFC doesn't have anyone that those two teams would even consider having as a bench warmer outside of maybe Sterling. I feel like LFC is now a second tier feeder club that feeds feeder clubs.

 

I feel offended that you picked the Eredivisie ahead of the Russian, Turkish and Portuguese (and Ukrainian) leagues.

Those were catching up and overtaking them. :grin:

 

That's the definition of an insult to even so much as compare Emre Can to John O'Shea.
I'm not sure how much of Liverpool you watched this season but to say Can despite playing multiple positions, can't play any at a high level is absurd. He was quite good most games in which he got to play central midfield for Liverpool and actually played at a very high level when he did and when he does play that position for Liverpool. He filled in quite well at Centre Back as well and to say he's a decent squad player is absolute nonsense. With Gerrard gone, Can will have the opportunity to get more matches at CM but the hope is that his versatility isn't held against him. Either way, like i said, if you think a comparison to Can is John O'Shea then you definitely didn't watch Can when he played for Liverpool this season. O'Shea would struggle to hold Can's jock strap.

 

Your point about Torres was - He was their star and they had to sell him to a bigger club.
Your point about Cristiano was - He was a boyhood Madrid fan so United had to sell him.
No one is forced to sell those players merely because they are boyhood fans of either club but rather because those clubs look at those players with "hungry eyes" and the teams that have those players realize once those clubs look at their players, the players mind starts wandering, they become unsettled and it's best to cash out. Fergie could have put his foot down and held onto Cristiano for a few more seasons but it was done once Madrid had a look.

United could have held onto Cristiano a while longer but Madrid wanted him and Madrid were going to get him.
Yes for the most part United were able to hold onto other star players even when Madrid, Barca, Bayern, Juve, etc wanted those players but that was because Fergie was in charge. Fergie would prevent those players from leaving and made sure they'd leave when he wanted them to leave. Not every club had such a manager or has one now.

Spoiler

United didn't have to sell in order to bring in more money for future transfers and neither does Liverpool but rather they sell because they know it's best to take the money. United with Fergie were able to hold out, Liverpool didn't have a Fergie and thus couldn't.

Now with no Fergie in charge, the big rumor as I'm sure you've heard is De Gea to Madrid, as Madrid have started batting their eyelashes at the United keeper. Do you think LVG can put his foot down like Fergie and stop De Gea from leaving? Heck no. Is it because De Gea is a "childhood Madrid fan"? I highly doubt that given he was an Atletico player and any possible childhood love for Madrid probably went out the door. But when Madrid call, every player and manager listens. So if/when De Gea leaves for Madrid, can we not call United a feeder club in a sense?

Of course Bayern, Chelsea, United, City, PSG are more attractive to top talent than Liverpool is right not but I would say SLIGHTLY more attractive. Saying way more attractive is a bit much and untrue imo. You make it sound like Liverpool are Stoke City or Tottenham.
Like I said, every club is a feeder club to Madrid, Barca and to Bayern to an extent. If you want to say there are levels of feeder clubs then sure, I'd agree with that if you want to say that Tottenham, Southampton, etc are at a first tier level of feeder club, followed by Liverpool on the second level and at the last level of feeder club are United, City, Chelsea- The clubs that wouldn't rush to sell their players when Madrid come calling but they would think about it a little longer than the others. Either way, they're all feeder clubs to Barca and Madrid.

Damn I wrote too much. Basically my point is, every club that isn't Barcelona or Madrid is basically a feeder club of some sort and at some level.

 

So much wrong in this post, I don't even have time to address them all.
Fergie did hold on to Cristiano. Madrid came knocking the year before he left, and he told Cristiano that he could leave for his childhood dream if he gave him one more year. Fergie understood, Cristiano understood and it ended with a Champions League trophy. Had Fergie not made that deal, Cristiano would probably try to force a move, maybe even leave on a free transfer eventually. But there was mutual respect in this case. And Cristiano loved it at Utd, but Real was his childhood dream.

And yes, unfortunately for you there is a big difference between big money clubs like Barca, Real, Bayern, PSG, Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City. No matter how you twist it they have won trophies consistently in the recent year. And/or have money to buy the biggest stars in the game. Don't kid yourself.

Liverpool is in the same bracket as Tottenham. Lamela and Soldado were arguably bigger signings at the time they were bought than what Liverpool have done in the transfer market in the last decade even though they haven't lived up to their billing.
And what established top talent like Aguero, Di Maria, Hazard, Bale, Neymar, Ribery, Zlatan etc etc have Liverpool bought lately? These are just examples, but these clubs have the power to outbid and be much more attractive than Liverpool in every single way. That's just the way it is. The only chance Liverpool have is to strike gold e.a. Luis Suarez, Xabi Alonso for a decent fee without competition from these other clubs. Or develop top talent from within like Steven Gerrard and build on it, win the league and become an attractive destination again. But they are far from one at the moment.

 

Ah yes, I forgot about Fergie making a deal with Cristiano. The point stands, regardless of a deal between Fergie and Cristiano, when Madrid called, Cristiano was going, even if he Madrid werent his childhood team.
Fergie could have put his foot down like he did in years past when he wasn't ready for players to leave but he compromised. Not every club had a Fergie and Fergie isn't there now.

I see you didn't address Madrid's flirting with De Gea. What happens if De Gea makes the move? Will United still not be considered a feeder club of some sort by you?

Just like you wrote that there is a big difference between Barca, Madrid, Bayern, PSG, City, and United compared with Liverpool, my point remains. There is also quite a difference between Barca and Madrid compared with the other clubs. If Barca and Madrid want a player on one of those other teams, they get that player. If those other teams want a player on Barca or Madrid, they get those players on a free or when those teams want to cut bait.

That's fair if you say Liverpool are on the same level as Tottenham and I can accept that point but my point remains. They are ALL Feeder clubs on some level or another, to Barca and Madrid. Including Manchester United.

 

Lol, as I said, "we" are all feeders to Barcelona.
What does Barcelona want to eat?

 

So word on the street is that Sterling isn't going to sign a new contract, regardless of how much LFC is willing to offer (which isn't much cus of moneezball).

So who gets him? City, Madrid, Chelsea? I doubt Madrid is willing to overpay, but City and Chelsea might.

 

No, Cristiano went because Madrid was his childhood dream. And it's the same with DeGea. His wife lives in Madrid, and he is a madridista even though he played for Atletico. Remember Raul? He was an Atletico fan growing up and played for their youth team.

The difference is that just about every Liverpool player will look to take the next step if they are good enough, while players on the other teams I mentioned might just stay there throughout their career because they are a top tier club even though Real or Barca comes knocking. It's just different for a club like Liverpool. Just the way that I explained earlier about Liverpool not being able to attract top level players. They have to find gold or develop some talent from within. While these other teams can buy superstars because they simply are a level above.

People love to blame Brendon or whoever the coach is for not getting the "right players". But the fact is that Liverpool haven't won the league in like 25(!!!!!) years. That, and money, and climate doesn't exactly make them a great destination for superstars today that grew up in the 90's. Liverpool are not going to sign a Neymar, but their option is buying a Markovic, hoping he explodes and becomes a star.

That being said, I agree that in the majority of cases Barca and Real are in a league of their own when it comes to attracting players. They are by far the most glamorous destinations.

 

I'm guessing City, Bayern or Arsenal as the likeliest in that particular order. Although, he was a Man Utd fan growing up.

 

I think Arsenal or City. But I really think Arsenal will sign him. He will hear from many people that City is where young players with potential go to die. I don't think Bayern will be interested enough. Even though Xavi paid Sterling a great compliment, I don't see Pep pursuing him that hard. To be honest, I don't think Sterling or any British player currently (except maybe Wazza) has the tactical nous to play for Pep. That's probably too harsh, though.

Wenger can convince him that he will grow and develop there (see Ox and Walcott to a lesser degree), get a solid amount of first-team football, and would be willing to pay him a decent amount. Theo is on his way out I think and Sterling can take his place (yes Walcott is now a fringe player, but Sterling is more effective higher up the field anyways).

Anyone thinking Real Madrid or Barcelona is dreaming. Also, your evaluation of Liverpool was harsh but spot on.

 

Eh I dunno if it's the same for Cristiano and Raul as for De Gea.
Playing for Atletico's youth team then signing for Madrid isn't the same as playing for Atletico's 1st team and then making the move to Madrid.
I mean the main thing is like you mentioned, his lady leaves in Madrid and he is from the city. Now he wasn't angling for a move there a couple of years ago but when Madrid focus their attention on someone then that players eyes widen.

You are definitely right on about Liverpool's not winning the league in decades being a factor in why they aren't as great a destination as the others. Money wise, I think they can compete up to a certain level but if United, City, Chelsea decide to raise the financial terms level when going after a player, then Liverpool might fold in such a scene. Climate makes no difference though seeing as United and City play in the same climate(assuming you meant climate-weather). Also I definitely agree about a difference (Liverpool to City, United, etc) being the ability to attract superstars. The Alexis Sanchez situation is definitely an example.

As long as we agree that to an extent/at various levels, other clubs are feeders for Barca and Madrid. (Some like Liverpool, Tottenham, etc more so than Man.United, City, etc.)

I don't think it's going to get any better next season for Liverpool re. winning the league and changing things around in terms of the players they buy and those they find themselves selling. Missing out on that title last season was terrible for them but who knows, they may strike gold on some other transfers and young players.

 

Hahaha man I aint mad at you. Now I hear you got BBQ I know what I need to do for lunch.
Where are you and Reeko planning to watch the UCL final? I might come through if you all are going to a bar somewhere in Htown.

 

I'm interested to hear what Yung-T and ATW think about that.
Agree about Sterling seemingly lacking the tactical nous to be able to play for Pep, but on the other hand perhaps Pep might look at it as a challenge to take on and also see it as bringing in something different to the team.
It'd be so much more interesting if he went to Bayern but yeah Bayern probably aren't as interested as the media made it seem.