1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Official} Astros @ Mariners

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Castor27, Apr 20, 2015.

  1. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    People really underestimate just how much of a difference having a couple of reliable relievers can make. It's a big part of why I think this will team has a chance to be on the edge of playoff contention down the stretch - their record last year was with total chaos in the pen. The few new additions could easily be worth another 10 wins alone, and that's ignoring all the theoretical improvements to the offense.
     
  2. Grandpappy

    Grandpappy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    17
    Actually it was Lidge Dotel Wagner in that order. Also Qualls Wheeler Lidge was just as good if not better.
     
  3. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    26,370
    Likes Received:
    16,699
    I am pretty sure Sipp pitched more innings last year than he has ever has professionally and last year was by far his best professional year. So Porter did get about as many innings out of Sipp as he could without drastically increasing his workload. Sipp and Fields were really the only guys that could get lefties out consistently last year.

    There were a lot of things Porter did wrong, but he was in a no win situation with the pen. Sipp, Qualls, and Fields could only pitch so many innings last season. Inferior pitchers were going to pitch and these inferior pitchers had nothing they could do against LHBs except serve up batting practice (well even more so than they did against RHBs).

    The pen problem last year falls on Luhnow.
     
  4. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,645
    Sipp pitched more innings in 2010, 2011 and 2012 in the majors as well as 2005 and 2006 in the minors..
     
  5. donkeypunch

    donkeypunch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2013
    Messages:
    20,531
    Likes Received:
    23,392
    Lube came in the form of 70 million dollars. I still dont like the fact that we movedto the AL but for 70mil, cant say I blame him.

    This. This. This. Sipp was our most reliable pitcher out the pen last year and I always have confidence when that guy is out there. Porter always tried to do too much and outsmarted himself. Wont even get into that LF debacle.
     
  6. mick fry

    mick fry Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2013
    Messages:
    19,343
    Likes Received:
    6,876
    We hadn't won the game yet dude, stop making up crap.
    Liable to get ugly when we went down by 2 with Thatcher who was all over the place= awful? Fact = Pessimism to you as well? Hmmmm, ok killa whatever.
     
  7. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    23,979
    Likes Received:
    14,649
    colin is going tonight......

    if offense shows up then....
     
  8. newAge_Rockets

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    2,343
    Likes Received:
    340
    I thought the same as you. Asher worked his way out of a few jams that I thought could've gotten ugly, and no Astro fan could ever feel comfortable with Thatcher on the bump.
     
  9. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,645
    Not hard for Porter to outsmart himself.
     
  10. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    26,370
    Likes Received:
    16,699
    Counting Sipp's innings in the minors last year..I get 65.1 innings. More than he pitched in 2006, 2010, 2011, and 2012. The source I used (fangraphs) did not list his minor league data prior to 2006. Sorry, I missed the 2005 work. As 2005 was a long time ago, I stand by the point his arm probably wasn't conditioned enough to handle much more than Porter got out of him.

    Damn you Porter from getting a better season out of Sipp than any other manager ever has!
     
  11. Nick

    Nick Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    50,795
    Likes Received:
    17,167
    Porter used the hell out of Sipp... that wasn't the main issue with Porter.

    Porter just didn't really have a feel on how a bullpen should be constructed and executed.... started the year with a "bullpen by committee", but was secretly trying to force Fields into that role (and likely over-used him early which resulted in the entire bullpen becoming weaker).

    By the time he finally settled in on Fields-Sipp-Qualls, most of the damage had already been done.

    No bullpen is going to save every game or convert every save opportunity... but you do need a manager to have an ongoing feel of the bullpen in terms of which roles guys are most well-suited to, and their overall availability on any given day.
     
  12. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,645
    I see. I was just using his major league numbers from last year.
     
  13. awc713

    awc713 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Messages:
    6,479
    Likes Received:
    6,162
    I wonder if the Fowler trade is effecting Springer.

    GS was very outspoken about how Fowler was like a big brother/ really helped him adjust to MLB and get out of slumps.

    GS needs a a veteran role model. I don't see any on our team that could really help him. Rasmus isn't the guy for that. I'd love to bring in Gomes, but we already have a glut of OFers, especially when you throw in our OF prospects.

    Getting some leadership should be a high priority this season.
     
  14. CisBuds4U

    CisBuds4U Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2009
    Messages:
    6,208
    Likes Received:
    2,166
    lol..man Porter became persona non grata FAST for the Astros. I still remember the press conference when Luhnow introduced him to the world and said something along the lines of "he will (likely) be our manager for the next decade." and less than 2 years later he was gone like yesterdays meatloaf.

    Not sure what Luhnow and Crane saw in him to begin with. Even though its early, I'm starting to like Hinch. He seems to have an air of confidence about him and know-how and the players seem to like him. hopefully this is the beginning of a good relationship !
     
  15. Nippystix

    Nippystix Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2013
    Messages:
    1,515
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    Wait - Sipp is a relief pitcher? I thought he was an outfielder??

    /sarcasm
     
  16. mick fry

    mick fry Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2013
    Messages:
    19,343
    Likes Received:
    6,876
    Ya it was pretty shakey.
     
  17. The Beard

    The Beard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    11,379
    Likes Received:
    7,123
    Yep, and we have Fields coming back at some point too!
     
  18. The Beard

    The Beard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    11,379
    Likes Received:
    7,123
    Completely agree, it's nice to feel good about a two run lead late...haven't been able to feel that way for a while
     
  19. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,971
    Likes Received:
    2,351
    This is more some chronicle writer struggling for a story than real life.

    Springer was a great player well before he met Dexter Fowler.
     
  20. The Beard

    The Beard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    11,379
    Likes Received:
    7,123
    I agree with what you are saying, and Bo certainly had his issues with using the Pen and other stuff

    BUT......he was never given a pen that had much overall ability. If he was given Gregerson and Neshek and Qualls at the back end, maybe he would have used them appropriately. Again, not trying to back up anything Bo did, but the guy didn't have much to work with
     

Share This Page