1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

MVP Watch 2k15: James Harden

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by justtxyank, Feb 23, 2015.

  1. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    28,371
    Likes Received:
    24,021
    Surprised LeBron isn't on this list. How is that possible?
     
  2. Roc Paint

    Roc Paint Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2001
    Messages:
    22,329
    Likes Received:
    12,444
    Harden is better than LeBron right now.
     
  3. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    28,371
    Likes Received:
    24,021
    I'm glad to see James has stopped doing the "stirring" hand motion early in games. It should really only be done in situations like last night: when he hits a big shot late in the game to secure a win.
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,749
    Likes Received:
    41,194
    You're reading correlation as causation.

    Most of "history" is based on poeple reading newspaper box scores and not watching games. Not so true anymore.
     
  5. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    28,371
    Likes Received:
    24,021
    I don't know about that. Here's a list of people who voted for the MVP last year. Most of the names I don't know, but of the names I do know I'm not expecting them to be impartial or logical in their selections.

    bball-reference has an MVP Tracker that "ranks candidates based on a model built using previous voting results. This list does not represent the opinion of this site. Rather, these are the players that the voters are likely to target (maximum two players per team)."

    It has 39.5% chance of winning it and Harden with a 24.6% chance of winning it.

    Code:
    Rk	Player	Tm	W	L	W/L%	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS		Prob%
    1	Stephen Curry	GSW	57	13	.814	68	68	32.8	8.0	16.7	.477	3.4	8.0	.420	4.6	8.7	.530	4.0	4.4	.913	0.7	3.6	4.3	7.9	2.1	0.2	3.1	1.9	23.3		39.5%
    2	James Harden	HOU	47	23	.671	69	69	36.8	7.9	18.1	.439	2.5	6.8	.369	5.4	11.3	.482	8.8	10.1	.868	0.9	4.9	5.8	7.0	1.9	0.8	4.0	2.6	27.2		24.6%
    3	Chris Paul	LAC	46	25	.648	71	71	35.1	7.0	14.5	.480	1.6	4.2	.379	5.4	10.3	.520	3.3	3.7	.883	0.6	4.1	4.7	10.1	1.9	0.2	2.4	2.5	18.8		9.1%
    4	Westbrook	OKC	40	30	.571	55	55	34.0	9.1	21.3	.427	1.1	3.8	.300	8.0	17.5	.454	8.1	9.7	.844	2.0	5.3	7.3	8.7	2.2	0.2	4.4	2.6	27.5		9.0%
    5	Anthony Davis	NOP	37	33	.529	56	56	36.0	9.6	17.6	.546	0.0	0.2	.100	9.6	17.4	.550	5.4	6.6	.828	2.6	7.8	10.4	2.0	1.4	2.9	1.4	2.1	24.6		6.2%
    6	LeBron James	CLE	46	26	.639	61	61	36.3	9.2	18.8	.492	1.8	5.0	.350	7.5	13.8	.544	5.7	7.9	.719	0.7	5.1	5.8	7.3	1.6	0.7	4.1	2.0	25.9		5.0%
    7	Blake Griffin	LAC	46	25	.648	56	56	35.5	8.7	17.4	.501	0.1	0.4	.381	8.6	17.0	.504	4.7	6.5	.719	2.0	5.7	7.6	5.1	1.0	0.5	2.3	3.0	22.2		1.9%
    8	Damian Lillard	POR	44	24	.647	68	68	36.2	7.2	16.6	.434	2.4	7.1	.340	4.8	9.6	.503	4.4	5.1	.862	0.6	4.1	4.7	6.2	1.3	0.3	2.7	2.0	21.3		1.7%
    9	Marc Gasol	MEM	50	21	.704	70	70	33.7	6.6	13.4	.493	0.0	0.2	.200	6.5	13.1	.498	4.5	5.6	.809	1.4	6.5	8.0	3.8	0.8	1.7	2.2	2.6	17.8		1.5%
    10	Aldridge	POR	44	24	.647	61	61	35.7	9.3	20.0	.466	0.5	1.4	.373	8.8	18.6	.472	4.4	5.1	.853	2.6	7.9	10.4	1.8	0.7	1.0	1.8	1.9	23.5		1.5%

    I could easily envision those voters listed above looking at such a table comparing these players and saying "Well, Curry has a higher FG, 3, and FT%. More assists per game and fewer turnovers per game. Scores a few less points, but GSW won X games and swept the season series against the Rockets. So I'm picking Curry."
     
  6. Fullcourt

    Fullcourt Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Messages:
    7,322
    Likes Received:
    2,710
    Last night on SC Tim Legler said he still picks Harden as MVP.

    Edit: I'm late
     
  7. Sydeffect

    Sydeffect Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Messages:
    5,923
    Likes Received:
    448
    Imagine the ****storm by either franchise if Harden or Curry wins
     
  8. vstexas09

    vstexas09 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    10,165
    Likes Received:
    538
    nationally, we will become the most scrutinized, hated franchise if harden wins mvp..
     
  9. Fyreball

    Fyreball Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    15,164
    Likes Received:
    12,813
    So essentially, things would just remain status quo. Gotcha ;)
     
  10. vstexas09

    vstexas09 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    10,165
    Likes Received:
    538
    I still don't think we're quite there yet. We're getting some love now from media outlets, but that will all change.

    Hell, I think players will be more physical with Harden and get away with it in the postseason. Media doesn't want to see 20 avg free throws (in playoffs) even if he is legitimately fouled.
     
  11. Clown Baby

    Clown Baby Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    132
    I think the reason Harden get crpa for his FTs is because he isn't the most athletic guy. Guys like Westbrook and LeBron just look so dominant physically that you give them a pass for getting to the FT line so much. Same with MJ. "They're so athletic, how can you stop them without fouling?"

    Harden' a sneaky good athlete but far from dominant, he gets his FTs by being the master of angles. He moves into the body of the defender at the exact right time, he extends those arms at the perfect time, etc.

    People don't give him enough credit for being extremely strong. This is a guy who is OUR BEST DEFENDER AGAINST ZACH RANDOLPH! because of his lower body strength. This is a guy who gets fouled more than anyone else in the league by a mile and still plays in every single game.

    It's amazing how people label Harden "soft" for relying on FTs so much. The reality is that he's one of the toughest and strongest players in the league relative to his position.

    An MVP would be nice. But what Harden really needs to flip the narrative on him is WIN IN THE PLAYOFFS. Once he does that the "wait until the FTs stop in the playoffs!" trash talk will stop. I'd take a 3rd place MVP finish and great playoff run from Harden over an MVP and another poor performance. I can't wait until the playoffs, that step-back makes him so much harder to guard these days. He's gonna tear it up in the playoffs imo.
     
  12. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    65,033
    Likes Received:
    32,738
    The issue is that the HACKS are so VICIOUS
    that the shots look like he just throws them up . . .
    If the defender did not foul they would be easy layups and AND 1s

    Rocket River
     
  13. Nick_713

    Nick_713 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    1,287
    [​IMG]

    Can somebody animate this gif, like the Harden on Belinelli gif that was made earlier this season???
     
  14. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    55,501
    Likes Received:
    65,275
    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>My Top 5 MVP candidates are Stephen Curry, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Anthony Davis &amp; Chris Paul.</p>&mdash; Earvin Magic Johnson (@MagicJohnson) <a href="https://twitter.com/MagicJohnson/status/580414716318781441">March 24, 2015</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
  15. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    23,968
    Likes Received:
    14,582
    The curry argument starts and ends with Team Record.

    I think the Beard is more valuable than Curry.
     
  16. blahblehblah

    blahblehblah Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    4,689
    Likes Received:
    3,832
    Yup and the fact that Curry is statistically superior in aggregate metrics like RPM, PER, Win Shares per 48, Box plus/minus as well as individual metrics like TS%, FG%, FT% Assists, Turnovers, Ass/TO ratio, steals and 3 point %, has nothing to do with it :rolleyes:.
     
  17. jman7373

    jman7373 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    11
    So the Westbrook argument for MVP is that he is putting up historic numbers.

    The Curry argument is team record.

    Harden is a combination of both.
     
  18. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    23,968
    Likes Received:
    14,582
    But you don't include things like per/warp etc. Curry is a better shooter than Harden... so is Kyle Korver.
     
  19. Fyreball

    Fyreball Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    15,164
    Likes Received:
    12,813
    No LeBron?? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Magic Johnson needs to stick to covering the Lakers. What a joke.
     
  20. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2007
    Messages:
    52,195
    Likes Received:
    44,924
    It means that Harden is the best PG in the NBA.
     

Share This Page