Parker Rice the ring leader is, as guessed by myself and others, from Dallas. How do you spend $16K a year on a private edu and still only manage acceptance into OU? More importantly, how do you start balding at 19.
I'm going to say something that is going to be very unpopular but so be it. I want to emphasize that what the SAE members said was reprehensible and racist but I am troubled at how swiftly and forcefully the University has cracked down on them. While what they said / sang is disgusting and it is very troubling that such attitudes continue to persist at the same time to my knowledge they didn't break any laws and while offensive I don't know if they've actually acted on such views. Further this goes to what the nature of a university is. Part of the purpose of a university is to have an environment that fosters diversity and a confrontation of views. While such views are wildly held contemptible it is very obvious that they exist. My own opinion is rather than leave such views in the shadows it would be better to have them out front to confront them. In this way SAE has done everyone a favor. Perhaps instead of kicking them out and disbanding the fraternity with no chance of presenting their own story or defending themselves this could be a moment for them to learn something from this. My guess is that these kids, and yes they are kids, come from privileged backgrounds with little experience or understanding of racism and why it is so damaging to society. The lesson I suspect most of them will get out of this is to keep their mouths shut while actually not really changing their views. I want to be clear that I am not saying the university doesn't have a right to kick out the students and revoke SAE's charter but this is one of the challenges of free speech. The question though is if we uphold the idea of free speech does it protect only speech that is acceptable or does it also protect that which most of us find abhorrent?
Yeah, the University has all kinds of discretion in enforcing this and it's a slip up in a private, informal setting; but the fact that they're discussing membership just gives the campus newspaper, student government, politically focused student groups, outspoken faculty and law students too many axes to grind with the administration. Such a pain in the ass to have to investigate, implement and audit new pledging policies, while dealing with whatever campus-wide protests there are from kids trying to relive the '60s.
Even while expelled they still have the right to free speech. Free speech doesn't absolve anyone of the consequences of free speech. The university has a right to decide whether they want their school to be associated with that kind of speech. Southern schools already have a cloud of racism hovering over them just by virtue of being in the South. It's hard to find fault with the expulsion considering the backlash they could face if they stood by the students in question. I think the bigger issue is that from my experience too many frats perpetuate a culture of racism, sexism, and elitism. A lot of the isms.
i'm not telling anyone anything. just that both blacks and whites got wrong reasons to resent each other. im not talking about the whites in the video. im talking about blacks having lingering resentment for whites in general because we all are descendants of slave owners or such stuff like fchowder said was okay.
Again I'm not contesting that the University doesn't have the right to expel the students what I'm arguing is that in some ways this goes against the idea of the University as a place of free expression, free speech and as a forum for the confrontation of ideas. I agree if the University didn't take a very swift and hard stance against the students there would be a big backlash against the University. My own, perhaps idealistic view, is that such a backlash might be worth it in the interest of free speech on the campus and a true learning moment.
some whites did keep the money, land, and nice jobs... my family and me ain't one of them. we never owned slaves, never had any money... still got no money now, just lots of meth and booze and debt. sometimes on the bus or on the streets i get hassled by blacks because they think im one of the whites who done all that. fchowder tried to justify their racism against me. i said it's wrong. blacks should receive reparations in theory but in practice it's hard to calculate the money and how it should be given. the israel example brought up here is interesting though.
There's no free speech within a company/corporation and schools have turned into corporations over the last 20 or so years. That place of free expression you're thinking about exists as a fantasy or in history books only now, IMO. I get what you're saying though and think it would be helpful if the students were asked to debate their beliefs in public as a condition for more leniency in being allowed back into a college in the future. Actually, I'm not sure how this works. Will these kids be able to apply elsewhere and get in?
Racism is racism, even if you have grievances, even if those grievances were somehow deemed legit. There is a greater issue with blacks in America because they were not only enslaved, but that that slavery in particular is what made the richest Americans rich (many till today), and those Americans form an astonishingly high proportion of the most jail owners, police chiefs, influential judges, lawyers, congressmen, senators and politicians today. That cause and effect relationship has obviously made some Americans more accepting of rigid class structure. So even if we assume that reparations are out of the question - and after all, I don't think there's any fair way to allocate reparations - the cycle is continuing in the form of beneficiaries of slave owning ancestors now finishing off several decades of the most brutal class warfare by now behaving as though political correctness has gone overboard. That doesn't mean racism towards black Americans is worse than the reverse. It just means that it hurts them more on a human level (and rightfully so) and there is less hope for them to feel better about it in the future. No doubt America has taken racism very seriously, especially when compared to the free for all racism prevalent all over the world and fascistic anti-racism prevalent in Europe, but you're certainly not in position to act fed up with political correctness a few short decades after the most powerful people in the country murdered MLK and systematically destroyed any viable movement trying to break up the direction of classism in America.
Yes; there's no federal policy and likely no state law precluding them from applying or enrolling elsewhere. However, individual institutions can always decide to not let him in. Public universities in other states probably will admit them since their volume is so high that the application and enrollment process is probably automated. In this country, the bias would be towards eventually or probably immediately letting these kids back in to some program since almost all colleges are at least partially self-sufficient and inclined towards maximizing enrollment, tuition and alumni contribution.
Couldn't you argue that the university's swift action is the teaching moment? In 2015 that speech is unacceptable and incendiary. Do we really need to give the rich white kid from Dallas an opportunity to present the case for why what he said is ok? Why he is racist and why it is justified? Is that going to help the discourse?
It could have been handled differently and might have been better for everyone involved. I have no problem with this way either. It depends on if you think these kids can learn and grow, in which case maybe they shouldn't have been expelled. The hope is that they get embarrassed during this whole process and still find a way to learn something more than "it shouldn't have been recorded." They probably have the means to do fine after this incident, so they main concern going forward is after this fair punishment, will it forever make them hateful or ignorant to a greater degree. The onus is rightfully on them, but I do get your point that the University could have punished them, and kept them and helped them improve as people at the same time. Modern reactionary society doesn't work that way though.
I think I get what you are saying and I am trying to think what we would learn if the University was not as harsh. Please clarify. To me, you can't walk to an individual and call them ****** and expect less than a horrific backlash. Yes, it is not against the law to do that but there are going to be consequences that you will inherit by exercising your free speech. There's millions of things that could go wrong in that scene. The university actually did some teaching. Laws of motion.....For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction
The kid posted an apology. Obviously it was a big mistake and he's a d******d for it but I don't think it should ruin his life like it is going to. His name is on the front page of every major news website. There's no coming back from that. Honestly, he was probably trying to fit in with his frat bro's more than he is a racist. Very, very stupid and should not be tolerated. He deserved to be expelled. With that being said, his life is over. What we need to focus on is the issue at hand (racism) rather than one individual.
A simple google search will follow him forever. The Eric holders of the world will make sure he's done for. This is how the new america will work...........
Life won't be so easy for old Parker for a while, this racist rap is about to stick to him like white on rice. I agree with rocketsjudoka to a large extent. Given that the university is a public institution, there is a significant free speech legal issue-- which doesn't exist in the Donald Sterling case because the NBA is a private organization. I can see a legal case filed by the students. The students can admit that what they did was wrong and disgusting and say that they really regret doing it while still arguing that their 1st Amendment rights are violated by the expulsion. There may also be due process and other legal issues.
