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Analytics vs. Team Ball

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by BackNthDay, Feb 16, 2015.

  1. seeingred

    seeingred Member

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    that article makes a lazy, straw-man argument. "The rockets use analytics to inform their style of play" is switched to "the rockets ONLY use analytics to inform their style of play".

    The difference between the Hawks/Warriors and the Rockets isn't just "the rockets take more threes and shoot less 16 ft jumpers". They have great coaching, great talent, great depth, and lots of chemistry together. They aren't winning games because they shoot a lot of mid-range shots. That's just silly.

    Personally, I would like to see a bit mid-range from Harden and whomever our PG will be. Why? Because good defensive teams (especially in the playoffs) can take away the paint while still effectively closing out along the 3 pt line. At that point, the only thing open is mid-range. You have to have that capability. It's not your first or second option, but it needs to be AN option. And we've seen Harden develop a solid mid-range game against good teams. Need to get a few more players to adopt that skill set so we can "break in case of emergency".
     
  2. bmd

    bmd Member

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    You can't pack the paint if you are keying in on stopping the 3 and vice versa.
     
  3. SemisolidSnake

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    The link just takes me to the Yardbarker home page, not the article in question.

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if part of Morey's analytics is sort of an overall team IQ. There are so many different decisions a player can make once he gets the ball, and they have a split second to make them. A incredible player can make those decisions; others not so much. Pushing everything to the three-point line makes decision making significantly simpler. My problem with that is that I just consider the three to be a low percentage shot, risky shot even in the hands of an expert.

    The other issue is that while some players are inherently gifted, you can train a team to be good by drilling into them plays and how to react in certain situations, much like military or martial arts training. A brilliant martial artist can only go so far on natural talent; he or she has taken it to the next level by constantly practicing how to react in a huge variety of situations. I think you can do the same with a basketball team if you have the right instructor. If our team was a bunch of martial artists, I'd say they look like they've been taught to wait the for the badass guy to beat everyone up for them, and if that failed, whip out a gun.
     
  4. baubo

    baubo Member

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    You know the Rockets do this when they have players who can cut to the basket, right? Parsons (last year) and Jones (last year and pre-injury this year) were especially beneficiaries, and Papa did too until they realize he couldn't finish well at the rim.

    If we're just going to ignore personnel, why don't we have Dwight play the Diaw role of being a passer? Or have Beverley try to break down defenses like Tony Parker? I mean, the Spurs do it. We gotta be able to do it too, right?
     
  5. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title

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    Article is nonsense and is similar to some of the worst posts from the dumbest members of CF. The Rockets generally don't pass up layups to take 3 pointers, and when they do it's due to a mistake on a player's part (who will usually raise their hand for a "my bad" after the play) and not because that's the scheme.
     
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  6. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    Analytics and Team Ball are not mutually exclusive.
     
  7. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    This is crazy. LOL

    I can't believe what this has evolved into. Now it's that analytics tell players that there is no advantage to passing. Tell that to James Harden.

    The issues people point to with this team are not an analytics problem, they are a talent problem. You are nuts if you think Morey wouldn't love to have guys who moved the ball constantly looking for the best shot possible and you are nuts if he wouldn't rather have Steph Curry shooting 3s over Pat Beverly or Korver shooting them instead of Brewer.

    We don't have a perfect roster. We don't have the roster Morey would want in an ideal world. These people, including on this forum, that are bashing analytics and Morey with these things just don't know what they are talking about and they certainly don't listen to the coach of the GM talk because they talk about ball movement ALL THE TIME.
     
  8. ipaman

    ipaman Member

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    This is crap. I watch every game, please don't make **** up to win an argument.
     
  9. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    You're taking this personal I see, everybody relax. Differing opinions are okay on this site. Our offense is easy too stop when the pack the paint and we still take contested 3's. If we are hitting them great, if not. We are in trouble, because we lack ball movement when running PnR to the 9th power.
     
  10. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    This.

    It's really getting old. I wish someone would write a good article debunking all the myths about analytics.

    I've been a critic of Morey in some parts of his M.O. But I've never understood why people would criticize analytics.
     
  11. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    I receive absolutely zero for winning any arguement on this site, I'm just posting an article that I thought brought up some good points. I also watch and re-watch every game and doesn't make me an expert. I just offer my opinions. I love this team and city, I just don't think we have the necessary team chemistry to become champions.
     
  12. Ariza4MVP

    Ariza4MVP Member

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    People like this don't understand analytics and never will. All it is, is simply counting more things. Good lord I have never and will never understand how it's controversial.

    I never tell my stockbroker, "O man you have more info on a company...Screw you!!!! my gut is more valuable than facts!!!!"
     
  13. ipaman

    ipaman Member

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    wrong again. it's not team chemistry, it's talent. all the teams you and the article listed have better talent at this point in time.

    we have freaking ray lewis with a basketball and a point guard who can't dribble or pass both in the starting lineup.
     
  14. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title

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    For sure. I would like to see an article discussing and critiquing the Rockets use of analytics that is somewhat based on reality.
     
  15. bmd

    bmd Member

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    The thing about it is... You can't really debunk stats without stats.

    Stats are just facts.

    You can use stats to make an argument.

    If somebody doesn't like analytics then they don't like facts. How you interpret those facts is up to you, but you need them to make an argument.

    Making an argument against analytics is like making an argument against facts. It's impossible.
     
  16. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    This sums it up pretty well

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>You do realize that attacking &quot;analytics&quot; is saying you don't like &quot;knowledge.&quot; (No? You don't realize that? OK.) <a href="http://t.co/AwHlTq7HIs">http://t.co/AwHlTq7HIs</a></p>&mdash; Ken Tremendous (@KenTremendous) <a href="https://twitter.com/KenTremendous/status/565936167372070913">February 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

    I really do miss FJM
     
  17. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    Who's more talented the Hawks or Rockets?
     
  18. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    BTW, I love analytics, I have an MBA in Finance from UF, Texas State CPA since 1990, and CFP since 1995. So I do believe that analytics are definitely useful. However, I do believe that their are other elements to creating a winning team. This game does have emotional elements that we tend to overlook at times.
     
  19. bmd

    bmd Member

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    What other elements are there to create a winning team?
     
  20. ipaman

    ipaman Member

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    Rockets have the best player but Hawks have the better starting 5.
     

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