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Analytics vs. Team Ball

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by BackNthDay, Feb 16, 2015.

  1. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    This link/article correctly articulates the differences between our beloved Rockets and winners (teams that own us... Portland, Clippers, Spurs, Golden State, and ATL).

    http://network.yardbarker.com/author/article_external/18279155?widget=true

    "That’s my big complaint with Houston, organizationally — they are a team built on a mathematical concept and not on basketball chemistry; all too often, I feel as though Harden and his teammates were constructed in a laboratory and injected with anti-mid range jumper potions.

    Golden State (6th, 31.1 percent of team’s total FGA) and Atlanta (4th, 31.4 percent) attempt a great deal of 3’s too, although they are nowhere near the 40.2 percent rate of Houston. But Golden State and Atlanta are tops in the league in 3P%, while Houston is league-average. While the Rockets, theoretically, have a good formula — take attempts from 18-21 feet that are worth two points and make them three-point attempts — it largely ignores a fundamental aspect of basketball: the good vibrations that come from earning the correct shot.

    Great basketball teams have an awareness of where the best shot is on the floor, or as Mike Conley Jr. described so brilliantly in Jonathan Abrams’ recent piece, when certain guys need to get a touch. When Draymond Green passes up a spot-up three-pointer to get a teammate a driving layup, that does two things for the Warriors: (1) it gets the team an easier shot, and (2) it fires up that teammate, thus firing up the team. To Houston, there is no advantage to passing up the extra point; for Golden State, Atlanta and San Antonio — to name a few — it is equally a no-brainer to make the extra pass.

    My point? The best basketball teams — the best at anything — use everything at their disposal in order to win. It would be ridiculous if the Spurs, or the Warriors and Hawks, or the Rockets or Clippers, exclusively used analytics OR the eye test to make decisions. True NBA Finals contenders in today’s game use it all. This is likely why neither Houston or Los Angeles will make the Finals this season, and why last week’s masterpiece between Atlanta and Golden appeared to be a preview of what’s to come this June."
     
  2. bmd

    bmd Member

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    That is the dumbest article ever. Passing up a cutting teammate to shoot a 3 has nothing to do with analytics vs. traditional basketball.
     
  3. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    Great article. Homers will get offended
     
  4. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    Why? we pass up a significant number of easier attempts to shoot a 3. What team are you watching?
     
  5. bmd

    bmd Member

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    That has nothing to do with analytics.

    Analytics would tell you to take high percentage shots.

    Easy shots are high percentage shots.

    If a teammate passes up an easy shot to shoot a difficult 3, then that is just an individual player making a bad decision.
     
  6. intergalactic

    intergalactic Member

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    Analytics and team ball are not in conflict. Analytics is about the sets you run. Team ball is about what you do within each set.
     
  7. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Another analytics article by someone who doesn't understand how they are used.
     
  8. FTW Rockets FTW

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    Analytics > Winning
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    Good point, however, analytics are telling the players to take an open 3 when your teammate is cutting open for an easier/better shot?
     
  10. baubo

    baubo Member

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    I'll just paraphrase what Zach Lowe said in response to the whole anti-analytics thing. "The Spurs have arguably the 2nd largest analytics department in the NBA behind the Rockets."

    If analytics is bad, then we should all stop trying to emulate the Spurs in basketball.
     
  11. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    Spurs use it as a tool. They go beyond analytics, hell they been balling like this before analytics. "we persuade players to take a a step or 2 back for even greater..."
     
  12. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    This is what we don't emulate about the Golden State or Spurs

    "When Draymond Green passes up a spot-up three-pointer to get a teammate a driving layup, that does two things for the Warriors: (1) it gets the team an easier shot, and (2) it fires up that teammate, thus firing up the team. To Houston, there is no advantage to passing up the extra point; for Golden State, Atlanta and San Antonio — to name a few — it is equally a no-brainer to make the extra pass." We fail horribly at this?
     
  13. SeekingAlpha

    SeekingAlpha Member

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    Analytics should be fluid and flexible, is what i think the article is suggesting.

    A team might take analytics to mean they should shoot highest percentage shots (layups and 3s).

    A great defensive team will take analytic results and modify their defense to run out to 3s and load up the paint to take away layups and 3s.

    That same great offensive team should have a fluid approach where analytics would suggest WHEN the defense is running out to cover 3 point shooters and loading up the paint, the highest percentage play to make is say a Harden / Smith pick and roll, or a one dribble pull-up from 2.

    So just looking at analytics and saying historically among all games played, layups and 3s are most efficient and thus we should shoot nothing but those types of shots is short-sighted.
     
  14. cdrive

    cdrive Member
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    Golden State (6th, 31.1 percent of team’s total FGA) and Atlanta (4th, 31.4 percent) attempt a great deal of 3’s too, although they are nowhere near the 40.2 percent rate of Houston. But Golden State and Atlanta are tops in the league in 3P%, while Houston is league-average.
    Yeah okay, we are talking about 38% team 3pt% vs 35% team 3pt%. Analytics is just a fancy term for being smart and using your brain to separate the significant from the noise.
    Houston bricked a cataclysmic 36 triples on Wednesday, finishing the 110-95 loss against Los Angeles with a flurry of rushed bombs in an attempt to accelerate a comeback; this was coupled with a prolonged Hack-a-Jordan sequence, the kind of theatre only the dirtiest of child predators should be forced to sit through. That Jordan was terrible from the charity stripe (12-26 FTA) in a 15-point victory goes a long way to describe how unpleasant the Rockets performed. Harden, forever the avatar for Morey ball, finished with a rancid stat line — 3 for 13 FGA, 0-7 3pA, five turnovers — and managed just 3-5 shooting from the line, something like half his usual attempts. In a word, it was an ugly game for the MVP candidate.
    Okay so how about how the Rockets played 4 games in 5 nights, were on a back to back versus a rested team, and Harden in particular was tired (as seen with the eyeball and the score sheet) because he just threw down back to back 40 pts games.
    Harden, forever the avatar for Morey ball..
    Harden right now is the avatar for elite god-mode top-of-talent-mountain basketball.

    Let’s return to the Rockets/Clippers garbage pile from Wednesday. Someone from Barkley’s perspective might interpret this game as a microcosm for basketball talent over basketball analytics. Here’s as far as I’m willing to yield on that front: attempting 45 3’s in a single game, barring a historical performance or two, is absurd.
    Good thing basketball isn't a sport with a single game season.
    That’s my big complaint with Houston, organizationally — they are a team built on a mathematical concept and not on basketball chemistry;
    Rockets are built on going out and getting the best basketball player on the planet, and realizing who he is, while the "eye ball test" guys like Barkley said Harden couldn't handle being the center of defense's attention and would fail in Houston. Rockets are built on inside-out, big man - guard super combo, something that has won us rings. We have a close locker room, a player's coach, and a team that doesn't even really run plays. We got Harden, Howard, Terry, Brewer and Smith who all came from lesser ideal situations to thrive in Rockets chemistry beaker.

    ...all too often, I feel as though Harden and his teammates were constructed in a laboratory and injected with anti-mid range jumper potions.
    Has this dude not paid attention to Harden's mid-range step back jumper? Who in the NBA has the most lethal mid-range jumper this season? If you don't mention Harden in your short list, you've been lazy.
    While the Rockets, theoretically, have a good formula — take attempts from 18-21 feet that are worth two points and make them three-point attempts — it largely ignores a fundamental aspect of basketball: the good vibrations that come from earning the correct shot.
    21ft jumper 2 ft / 1 step in front of the 3pt line is rarely ever "the correct shot"
    Now, if you excuse me, I have a date with a female girl I should be getting to.
    "Female girl?" I doubt this
     
  15. bmd

    bmd Member

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    Analytics don't tell players what to do on every single play. That's where basketball IQ comes into play.

    It certainly doesn't say pass up an open lay-up for a 3-pointer.
     
  16. ZNB

    ZNB Member

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    Im tried of all these straw man arguments.
     
  17. baubo

    baubo Member

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    No. The Spurs played a vastly different style before analytics.
     
  18. bmd

    bmd Member

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    That has nothing to do with analytics and everything to do with coaching and player personnel.

    McHale emphasizes ball movement.

    Golden State, Atlanta, and San Antonio are just better at it.
     
  19. RockingRox

    RockingRox Member

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    Contested three vs open long 2. I don't know how Morey will grade them.
     
  20. Airdough

    Airdough Member

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    The author of the article is confusing roster construction with analytics. The analytics are sound for the Rockets, the pieces need to execute on this plan aren't yet in place. Everyone always seems to forget that Morey's favorite player is Dirk who is the king of the mid-range jumper. The Rockets problem is that they still don't have enough shooters or the shooters they do have or not hitting at rates they have in the past.

    Even with all that, they are still third in the west. If they improve their shooting at the deadline, they likely can retain that spot.
     

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