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Charles Barkley vs Daryl Morey

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by HoustonTexas, Feb 11, 2015.

  1. HTown5933

    HTown5933 Member

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    There's no question Barkley's history of bashing Dwight and the Rockets likely played a role in Morey tweeting.

    But, it was the ridiculous statement that "These are the TWO WORST DEFENSIVE TEAMS IN THE NBA" that he likely felt he "had to address" - I know I did... I immediately tweeted those knuckleheads with stats showing that's just not even the case.

    To say the Rockets aren't a good defensive team without Dwight or they're not playing championship caliber defense is one thing. To make a ridiculous blanket and false statement like he did was absurd.

    Most credible journalists or analysts would qualify things. Charles is who he is and has won over many being so outspoken. But, he really is WRONG a lot of the time when discussing BASKETBALL. It's obvious he doesn't watch near enough ball to be an "expert analyst".
     
  2. Nick

    Nick Member

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    I do too... but I certainly don't consider a single "tweet" at halftime as "fighting back to not be a doormat to unfair criticism"... however, its certainly being portrayed as if he went on some huge crusade/tirade to not only clear the Rockets from Charles' bias, but also to support analytics!
     
  3. sleepyazn

    sleepyazn Member

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    It doesn't matter what Barkley or Morey says. My analytic tells me Rockets are going to get bounced in the first round again. Why? Simply put theres over a 50% chance of Rockets getting matched up with the Clippers. Basically Jordan will look like Wilt Chamberlain, Griffin will look like a unholy mixture of Hakeem and Duncan, and CP3 will piss over the wannabe D league corpse of Beverley. IN other news this series will have the most whiny bunch of players and fans ever, thus creating a new Dead Sea from the amount of saltiness created from rampant flopping.
     
  4. BigShasta

    BigShasta Member

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    not you again. :p
     
  5. WinkFan

    WinkFan Member

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    Charles Barkley says "Good defensive teams don't give up 118 points"

    List of NBA teams this year who have not given up 118 points:


    Memphis(117(OT))(114reg)
    Miami(115)
     
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  6. Airdough

    Airdough Member

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    Most of this is just silly and maybe a little contrived. All this is accomplishing is to get more people to tune in to TNT for the games, not really a debate on the usefulness of analytics.

    Analytics has accomplished in putting numbers to either prove or disprove prior intuitions that we all use to make decisions. Before Morey came along, you didn't need numbers to tell you if a certain player was bad at shooting from certain areas of the floor, you used tape and what you saw in the game to funnel that player into shots that he didn't make as often.

    Analytics will become strong when it can find a way to effectively predict what teams will play well together not based on just skills but also their ability to work as a team. Advanced stats can help you put people in situations to succeed but the players still have to execute and be more efficient at it than the other team to win.

    I think Barkley is trying to say some of these things but since he is an entertainer more than a true "analyst" he's going to communicate to fans that might not be as invested as we all are in their teams and all the data they use to make decisions. When that happens, he says things like he did last night which just so happens to have created publicity and threads like these on many sites that will likely go 20+ pages deep.

    Well played Morey and Sir Charles, well played.
     
  7. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    The reason old school people hate analytics is the same reason the baseball media hated sabremetrics at first. They are afraid of it. The numbers can expose them when they say things that aren't true, can debunk myths, can point out that your eyes aren't the best judge of talent, etc. Baseball writers were the worst because they held the key to information in the old days. There were too many games, not enough on tv, etc. and so writers got to create the narratives for the fans. Stats can debunk that and they hate it.

    Players are just as afraid. Most players would never want to believe that if they missed a mid range shot it was because they weren't good at those shots, they want to believe it was just an unfriendly roll of the dice. The more detailed stats get to show players their weaknesses, the more they are afraid of them. Kyle Lowry was the opposite (Battier too) and it made him the player he is today. He embraced the statistical analysis of his game and it has made him a great player.
     
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  8. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    I'm glad you did this because I intuitively knew that was a stupid statement but didn't want to put the effort into disproving it lol.
     
  9. Icehouse

    Icehouse Member

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    The last 4 NBA champions were heavy analytics teams.
     
  10. markelliott1997

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    I understand where Charles is coming from. I mean his championships were all built on the eye test, not analytics. . .
     
  11. scolandry1

    scolandry1 Member

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    According to the alleged experts, talent just falls from the sky.

    Trading Rafer Alston for Kyle Lowry and acquiring Kevin Martin had nothing to do with statistical analysis. It would be blasphemous (douche chills) talk to use data to find players that are undervalued and flip those players for guys like James Harden, which resulted in attracting other big-name free agents like Dwight Howard.
     
  12. kevC

    kevC Member

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    The irony in all of this is that analytics help Barkley's case as an all-time great more than anything because of his lack of a championship.
     
  13. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    Don't bother. These are the same type of people who would argue that sabremetrics have been proven to be stupid because the As haven't won a title and just laugh when you point out that the Yankees and Red Sox both took all the statistical information the As made famous and used their payroll advantages to go get those players.
     
  14. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    I want to say this as delicately as possible. If you're taking Barkley's side on this, please go root for another franchise, preferably the Jazz. And don't reproduce. You are clearly an imbecile who should not spawn more idiots. Thanks!
     
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  15. StanleyHartwell

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    No you will NOT be necessarily better off. There is a trade-off between expected return and variance.

    For the same expected return, 3-point shots have larger variance than midrange shots. So it's automatically better just because on average you will end up with more points by shooting 3s

    As in investment, you can't aim simply for higher expected return. You have to choose an optimal balance between low variance and high return.

    This is simple finance 101.
     
  16. kevC

    kevC Member

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    A long two more or less has the same or slight lower variance as a 3 pointer. Especially corner 3's.
     
  17. coffeelover665

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    At least there is a silver lining to this. Barkley is trashing our brand of basketball. I can't imagine the guys not be fired up. Nor is Morey not turning up his GM game up another notch (at the most important dateline too may I add) I expect some shots at Barkley after a win from one of our players interview.
     
  18. yo

    yo Member

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    I think people should take Barkley for what he is, and that's entertainment. I'm sure as hell entertained, despite all his vitriol toward the Rockets. While he may not be the brightest, most analytical mind, he gives an old-school players perspective that is valuable.

    Barkley is an easy target. Everyone, including Morey, knows he spews ill-informed stuff all the time, and any halfway intelligent person can put him in his place at any given time. I imagine Morey is licking his chops after Barkley & crew clearly showed that they do not really understand how analytics are used last night. And with this upcoming panel on analytics, I hope Morey uses that opportunity to put him in his place. But after all this dust settles, just take Barkley for what he is. We're not entitled to respect just because we have an MVP candidate and Dwight Howard and won a few games. Easiest way to shut him up is just to prove we are contenders. We have not done that, and until we do, Barkley's words are simply true - "the Rockets are not contenders."
     
  19. StanleyHartwell

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    I don't think there is any reliable way to do this now. As far as I now, people have been using linear regressions to predict 5-man unit +/-, which is about as lame as it gets.

    I understand why people are high on analytics. But just like blind hatred, blind faith is also built on ignorance.

    Statistics is most dangerous when used by people who don't understand them.
     
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  20. Angkor Wat

    Angkor Wat Member

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    It makes me so mad, now i'm seeing people on my twitter timeline talking **** about Morey when they never even mentioned him once before.
     

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