I absolutely would prefer that argument. It's sort of like the Pats cheating in the game against the Colts....there was no reason to cheat, they were the better team. With Brady, there's a legitimate argument supporting him, there's no need to go the "winz" route.
O.K., here is a hint (if you are even interested), movie comedy with Bill Murry and Richard Dryfuss, early nineties. A hilarious scene.
When you have to argue about who the greatest is... The guy you're arguing for is probably not the greatest.
I'd go with Manning, that's young Marino stretched out over 10-15 years. A lot of his numbers don't make any sense.
There is more luck involved in football compared with any other sport. If Seattle didn't blow the game would you be calling Brady a loser.
Coaching is also a big aspect of the NFL... Manning wins a SB with Dungy, loses one with Jim Caldwell and John Fox. Montana won SB's with Walsh AND Seifert. Bradshaw won SB's all with Noll Brady wins SB's all with Belicheck. The debate is basically between Montana, Manning and Brady. I could make arguments for each over the other two... thus, you're never going to really determine who was the "greatest" (unless Brady goes on a run of winning 2 or 3 more... or perhaps he actually wins won with another coach which is doubtful).
Except for when it's in a sport with a couple of players that one can rightfully claim to be the GOAT. Not every sport has a Gretzky or Jordan with little competition as to who is actually the GOAT.
If we're adding Manning to the debate then I'd have to put up Elway as well. If we're sticking with the main two that deserve to be in the argument then I go just Montana and Brady. I hear you about coaching but man, I gotta disagree in a way. Coaching of course is major and the right coach sets the table for victories by the QB. The winning with another coach aspect is not that major imo to be impactful in this debate, as long as the right coach already has the system in place before the next coach steps up. Don't forget who coached the Cowboys to the SB win in XXX. Troy won Superbowls with 2 different coaches, that doesn't put him on Montana or Manning's level. (As much as I love Aikman). Switzer won that SB but I feel most fans know it was basically a Jimmy victory without him actually being on the sidelines. Barry gets the SB ring and name in the record book but that was Jimmy's team and system. Montana's SF team that Seifert took over still had some fantastic offensive talent including the greatest WR the game has ever seen.
I can't agree with that because it's not like Brady carried the Patriots on his back to their 1st three championships... They had a great defense. Corey Dillon even had a great year for one of those runs. When the Patriots won their third championships was Brady thought of as an all time great at that point or even the best quarterback in the league...? I don't believe he was. And when he made it to his two super bowl appearances against the Giants he didn't have garbage in his receiving core (just like he doesn't have garbage in his receiving core now). And he sucked in the 2007 AFC championship against the Chargers and in the super bowl. I would make an argument that he's a great quarterback and the most accomplished... But that doesn't make him the GOAT in my opinion. Can't have those blemishes and plus some argue his championships come with asterisks.
Manning has been to 3 super bowls with different teams and different coaches... That's kinda good for a loser.
He is the greatest QB ever and I'm one of the biggest Patriots haters. Awareness in the pocket and makes his teammates better, no other QB I feel would come back in the 4th against that Seattle defense.
So (1) from the Super Bowl thread it's clear you've got a bias against Brady and the Pats. I can dig that, I hate the Pats and Brady with a passion, but I can take off my "insert team color" tinted glasses. (2) It takes help from both sides of the ball to usually win a championship and Brady and the Pats had an excellent, fantastic defense to win the first 3. Brady also showed up to play in all 3. He carried them on his back until it was time for Adam Vinatieri to step up and seal the deal. How is that a problem? In his first SB appearance, Brady was named MVP. Now stats wise, he was w/o a doubt subpar to Kurt Warner(My personal favourite QB ever but that's for many other reasons) but he put his team in a position to win. In his second Super Bowl, you might want to rewatch that one. He was definitely MVP for a reason. His play and his numbers on that night showed it. In his third SB, he wasn't the MVP but he sure played like one. He was efficient and surgical. He put his team in a position to win all 3 prior Super Bowls he won. He didn't let his defense down. (3) Dude, i'm guessing you were around in 2004 so you know the answer to that question. Brady obviously wasn't considered the best QB in the game then or an all time great but how is that relevant to the discussion? We're talking about now in 2015 after separating himself from the player who was considered the best in the game in 2004. Peyton Manning. I mean, by 2006 even Brady was in the top 2 or 3 QB's in the league. (4) Corey Dillon had a good year, one of the best, if not the best Brady has ever had from a RB he's played alongside for a SB run. You know who else among the greats also had running backs that gave them great years in Super Bowls they played in? Montana had Wendell Tyler playing great one year and Roger Craig in the other SB years. Terrell Davis gave Elway some great years. Brady got one great year from Corey Dillon, woop dee doo. In the first SB loss to the Giants, that season do you actually remember who Brady's receivers were outside of Randy Moss and Wes Welker? Welker was a decent WR but had great potential at the time. In the second SB loss he had Gronk and Hernandez to add to Welker. Definitely a better overall receiving corps for sure. He definitely didn't have just trash to work with. You are right about that. Regarding the championship asterisks, I'm inclined to be petty and agree w/that as a Pats hater but c'mon, there's no asterisk in the record book and Brady and his team won those championships. That's just what it is.
I still think Montana is the best QB, but Brady is way better than Peyton, not even close between those two.
