Crennel:defense::Kubiakffense Just because Kubiak crapped the bed doesn't mean there aren't people out there who believe he could be salvaged if he were allowed just to focus on one side of the ball.
Eh... he wasn't the OC in Indianapolis; he was the QBs coach. Which means he “coached” Peyton Manning, which I can't imagine required a tremendous amount of know-how and skill considering Manning's now been the same record-setting QB for multiple coaches/teams. You do realize, since 2002, that PeePee has won at least 10 games in every single season, right? In fact, IIRC, he’s had one season of 10 wins; I believe the other 11 were all 12+. And he’s done it with Tony Dungy, Jim Caldwell, John Fox... So excuse me for being reluctant to give Caldwell too much credit for something Manning, more or less, churns out in his sleep and, frankly, could probably pull off without a coach at this point. I mean, no one's confusing John Fox with Bill Walsh. And since you're showing no signs of dropping what is a mostly hollow accomplishment, I'm forced to remind you that Gary Kubiak once went 11-1 with Matt Schaub. Which would you consider a greater accomplishment? Should I even bother to ask if you've made any progress on digging up anything else substantive about Caldwell's storied coaching career that doesn't involve Peyton Manning or a four-week stretch?
How would anyone do that since you've eliminated 9 out of 11 years of his NFL coaching career as acceptable to even look at? 2002 was also when Caldwell was brought in as Manning's QB coach. The year before, they were 6-10. Manning became what he is in large part under Caldwell. Whether Caldwell had any effect on that, who knows, but Manning certainly has credited him for helping him. Unless you can prove Manning is lying, this is what we know: http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2014/01/lions_coach_jim_caldwell_prais.html That has prompted some to ask the gnawing question: Could it be that Manning made Caldwell, and not the other way around? No one is more qualified to answer that question than Manning, and he's vouching for Caldwell completely. "Jim Caldwell has meant a great deal to me in my career," Manning said Tuesday during Super Bowl media day at the Prudential Center in Newark. "I felt like once he got to Indianapolis and became my quarterbacks coach, that my game really improved. It took a step up, and I thought Jim had a great deal to do with that. "He and I had a set routine that we tried to perform every day in the meeting room, on the practice field, in different drills. And from 2003 to 2008, when he was the quarterbacks coach, I was playing at a high level." The numbers seem to affirm Manning's point. He hadn't completed 67 percent of his passes in any of his first five seasons without Caldwell. He completed at least that many in his first three seasons with Caldwell. His best QB rating pre-Caldwell was 94.7. He exceeded that bar in his first seven seasons with Caldwell. He didn't win any MVPs in his first five seasons. He won the award in his first two seasons with Caldwell. Perhaps the greatest validation of Caldwell's worth was Manning's improving turnover numbers. The quarterback threw at least 15 interceptions in each of his first five seasons, but didn't throw more than 10 in any of the next four. "They had a great relationship," said Broncos tight end Jacob Tamme, who played for the Colts from 2008-11. "I wasn't in their individual meetings, but they got along well. Jim made Peyton better, no question. I think they worked well together."
Sorry - 2003, not 2002, in my first statement. Looking at the stats, that makes the change even more dramatic. His QB ratings skyrocketed and turnovers plummeted immediately instead of taking a year.
FWIW, RE: Caldwell, there was a collective sigh of relief in Baltimore when he left for Detroit... who simultaneously let loose groans heard across the NFL at his hiring.
No, Caldwell’s first year was 2002 (in which Manning threw 19 INTs). Given his (limited) experience beyond Manning, in which he has proven mostly incompetent (and Manning's success both before and after Caldwell), I would be willing to bet Caldwell’s tenure in Indianapolis is far more indicative of "right place/right time" - Manning was an obviously gifted prospect who Caldwell inherited at the age of 26. I'd wager Tom Moore had a much greater impact on Manning's career. Dungy did, after all, keep him on as offensive coordinator (rather than promote Caldwell, who he brought with him from Tampa), and the Colts did go 13-3 and 10-6 before their 6-10 implosion in 2001 - so this narrative that the Colts/Manning were some underachieving waste of potential until Dungy/Caldwell showed up is bending the narrative quite a bit. He went 62%; 85 TDs/53 INTs with a 7.7 YPA in the 1,651 attempts prior to Caldwell; 67%; 288 TDs/117 INTs with a 7.7 YPA in the 4,984 attempts with Caldwell. He certainly got better – but that’s what talented 26-year olds tend to do. It’s not like his game elevated significantly beyond, again, what you’d expect from a great 26-year old. I’m not trying to outright dismiss your post, Major – I tried to rep it (but need to spread it around – stop submitting respect-worthy posts, sir!) because it was certainly more insightful that a stream of “shrug” posts about a 14-0 start to a season that says absolutely nothing about a coach’s offensive insight. But I think *ANY*thing Peyton Manning-related (and that includes his robotic talking points; did anyone expect he’d badmouth a former associate… who wasn’t a kicker?) has to be taken with a grain of salt. Gary Kubiak built a terrific offense with a lot less talent than the offense Indianapolis trotted out for most of the 2000s - three sure-fire HoFers (Manning, Harrison and Wayne), another fringe HoFer (Saturday), and six first round draft picks (James, Wayne, Clark and Addai + Manning and Wayne, of course). Kubiak has one HoFer and one other first round pick. His QB was a third-round back-up, his RB undrafted, his TE a fourth round pick, and his other WR a seventh round pick (IIRC).
but then, everyone praised Baltimore for changing OC in the middle of the season when they won the superbowl. and why did Detroit preferred Caldwell over Kubiak?, both were interviewed by them.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Bears prepared to make a major push for Ravens OC Gary Kubiak, per source. Kubiak now free to talk with teams about HC vacancies.</p>— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/554307516868595712" data-datetime="2015-01-11T16:03:05+00:00">January 11, 2015</a></blockquote> <script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Good for him. Did an amazing job in Baltimore. Loved his offense when Andre, Foster, and Schaub were healthy with that beast ol.
Strange that they'd replace their career offensive coordinator head coach with another offensive coordinator head coach. Usually when a team fails in one direction... they go the other way. Not saying it won't work but its peculiar. Obviously the Bears have lots of talent on offense that Kubiak would likely be able to elevate to a upper-tier offense.... so maybe they're just deciding to maximize their strengths and ignore their obvious defensive weakness for now.
Looking through the thread is funny Esp the Comparisons to Caldwell Caldwell won a SB with the Ravens . . .. These two seem to be following similar career paths HC/OC/HC I hope he finds great success in Chicago . . . The Caldwell versus Kubiak games Lions Versus Bears Should be a gun slinging affair Rocket River
Brandon Marshall, Alston Jeffrey, Matt Forte, and Martellus Bennett should all be weapons Kubiak can use better than Trestman. This would be a good move for Chicago.
Yeah except very unlikely Kubiak tolerates Marshall and Bennett and possibly not Cutler. Jay likes to have the ability to audible, that won't happen with Kubiak. This would be such a Bears like hiring.
