It looks like the US is finally restoring diplomatic relations with Cuba...

I have no doubt that tallanvor supports an embargo for Guatemala, Honduras, and Argentina just to name a few.

 

All you have to do is read the thread.....

I was responding to Dubious calling Castro heroic.

same as above

 

I have a question since we're getting into debates about body counts. How many people died under the Rightist government in Cuba before Castro?

 

That 'source' indicates that between 1959 and 1987 there were 35-141 people killed by the communists in Cuba.

Do you have a real link to some actual data?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_authoritarian_regimes_supported_by_the_United_States

For quite a few of these authoritarian regimes, we are not only just actively supporting them with $$, weapons etc but some are considered as allies that we pledged to protect.

As long as a government is anti-communist, it can be as brutal, corrupt and incompetent as it want and still be eligible for US financial, military and political support.

 

Actually, Dubious referred to the revolution as heroic. You then changed that to refer to Castro

 

I believe the source document states that the numbers are in thousands. That said, the research is very difficult to follow, and his citations are vague and don't seem reliable. For example, if firing squads are the predominant way Castro's regime is supposed to have killed people, why does it appear that the largest number to have died were from people that rafted or swam away to escape Castro's Cuba?

And since he (his research) is the only source, it is difficult to put much stock in it. You find other sites that also refer back toRummel's site, and even they give broad and vague ranges, eg:

http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm

To me, it would be hard to base any decision to normalize or not based on Rummel's research, that's for sure.

 

U.S. Companies Clamor to Do Business in New Cuban Market
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/19/business/us-businesses-assess-cuba.html

PepsiCo wants in. So do Caterpillar and Marriott International.

Within hours of President Obama’s historic move to restore full diplomatic relations with Cuba, companies in the United States were already developing strategies to introduce their products and services to a market they have not been in for the better part of 50 years — if ever.

“Cuba is a potential market for John Deere products and services,” Ken Golden, a spokesman for Deere & Company, a leading maker of farm and construction equipment based in Illinois, said by email....

While some Americans will be itching at the opportunity to obtain the famed Cuban cigars more easily, the country also has a surprisingly robust biotechnology industry that makes a number of vaccines not now available in the United States. Another hot spot for the economy could be mining, as Cuba has one of the largest deposits of nickel in the world...

President Obama’s move to open relations between Washington and Havana for the first time in 54 years was widely seen as the signal for trade to resume, but, in fact, the United States is already the fourth-largest exporter to Cuba, behind China, Spain and Brazil....Last year, the United States exported $359 million worth of goods to Cuba, compared with a high of $711 million in 2008, according to American government statistics.

 

There has been very little intelligence at all regarding US foreign policy towards Cuba for decades. True in nearly every sense of the word "intelligence."

 

It's not clear to me what Rummel is including in his body count. I couldn't find any discussion about his Cuba numbers on his site. Looking at his other stuff, he takes an expansive view on what deaths are attributable, including things like famine resulting from conflict. Depending on what you want to use the numbers for, that's sometimes appropriate. If he does have some description of what sorts of deaths these were, I'd be interested to see it -- honestly.

But, even if we call it 200,000, how is that a 'genocide'? In fact, Rummel writes at length about how he's tracking 'democide' (death by government) instead of 'genocide.'

 

How good is Cuban coffee?

*edit
Will Americans be able to taste Cuban-grown coffee?
http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyl...rown-coffee/GqhOEcBkfhfJgylPwUWphL/story.html

(article more informative than it's title)

Cuban coffee, which is popular in areas like Miami that have large Cuban populations, is prepared espresso style and is usually highly caffeinated and very sweet.

 

Meh, we have Turks and Colombians when it comes to coffee, we don't really need Cubans.

 

Fact check: Is Cuba a 'leading' sponsor of terrorism?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/12/19/fact-check-ted-cruz-cuba-terrorism/20638993/

Sen. Ted Cruz condemned President Obama's announcement that he would normalize relations with Cuba, calling the communist country "a leading state sponsor of terrorism...The State Department report on Cuba was brief — just three paragraphs, and concluded by saying there's no evidence that Cuba has provided training or weapons to terrorist groups..

 

The truth and facts have never mattered with anything Cruz has done or said in the past. I didn't expect that to change now.

 

An economic embargo really disgusts me. You are telling other countries not to trade with a particular nation because you don't agree with how they're living and what they're doing.

I for one can't wait to be smoking Cohiba Siglo VI's in the US.

Bravo getting past all this nonsense. We want to buy cigars and rum and they want Coca Cola, get the damn governments out of the way.

 

That is not the reason for the embargo.

 

You have the government lifers in the state department with their age old hatreds and rivalries and disputes and spy games and at the end of the day it hurts consumers all over the world.

Having US customers get the lowest cost goods and services in the world is the only morality in this world. If we get cheaper and better goods and services we can live better lives for less money, innovate and focus on building goods and services that the world needs instead of overpaying for milk, corn, automobiles, cigars, rum etc. because of some bull****.

The capitalist machine is what pays for all these state department salaries, armies and politcial machines that make enemies.

 

You understand some of our most egregious and far-reaching atrocities have come in pursuit of cheap goods, correct? We've destabilized entire countries and regions for generations for access to raw materials at well below market value.

 

Do you actually think it's the civil servants at State that are responsible for the embargo?

Do you have a conception of the way the government functions that is beyond that of a 12 year old?

 

What is the reason?