Dream took damn near 10 years before he developed into a player that could carry a team to a championship. And how many times has Chris Paul been deep into the playoffs.... And last time I checked Durant has only made it to the finals with Harden on his team. And what the fuxk has Westbrook done to prove he's a legit super star to you...??? You sound like a complete hater... Maybe all of those dixks are going to your head...
Not even one mention of the Big E in the Pantheon? Or Dawson? Come on guys... I guess I am devil's advocate here. I want to preface that Harden is playing like the MVP of the league: a complete two-way player. The transformation is very stunning; did any of y'all think it would happen so quickly? I sure didn't, and did not think he would even produce as well on the defensive end either. However, while Harden has been exceptional, a big factor in winning games is the team defense. Harden is a part of it, but he is not the "leader" by any facet on the defensive end. That is Ariza at the moment. In addition, on offense, he is a baller, but I think you are severely taking away due credit towards Dmo, Black, Papa, etc. for playing better than expected, since, well, the start of the year. I am not sure Harden is helping Dmo post better. I am not sure Harden is helping Papa make crazy passes as well. My point being: not all the credit should be going to Harden for other players increasing their game, and a lot of the continued winning is because of the current league's best defense. Like I have said, Harden is playing like a bonafide MVP candidate. However, one must also consider the lack of playoff performance (not success), with the Rockets. He has laid stinkers, and that cannot be denied. I know he absolutely ransacked the Spurs in '11 (with the Thunder); but as a first option, he has yet to have a great performance, worthy of consideration for the pantheon. Last season, the Rockets should have beat Portland. Considering the Rockets match up very well with the Spurs, it would not have been out of the picture that the Rockets could have been in the WCF. Harden does have the advantage of being 25: he will have ample opportunities to carry the Rockets. However, the question still is "By when can Harden break into the Pantheon?". For the Pantheon, playoff performance and success is the most important factor. In the playoffs, it was Howard that was playing like an MVP. I understand people have a "What have you done for me lately?" attitude (some justified, of course: it is the NBA; people need to produce). However, the pantheon declarations cannot be made so hastily like other basketball opinions. Hate on Tmac all you want, but his game elevated in the playoffs. Yao played like a warrior in the playoffs. As of right now, if Harden is in the Pantheon or in consideration for the Pantheon, Howard is one step ahead of him. http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1986_finals.html http://grantland.com/features/an-oral-history-hakeem-olajuwon-ralph-sampson-1980s-houston-rockets/ 1986 NBA Finals? Can't blame that on Hakeem.
Ghost of Hakeem is dumb lol harden balled out agains KD and Westbrook for 46 and the win he balled out against Portland for 44 game winner and the win plus all the Spurs beatsing. Not to Mention drumming curry and the Warriors countless times. Hello buddy ever great player struggles from time to time against other great teams. That's why their great teams lol. KD lebron prime kobe/MJ all Had those games. Hell MJ would regularly shoot 40% against houston and lose back in the day. Is he bad? Harden needs to bring it in the playoffs but to say he's a fabricated superstar and can't play good against elite competition is a lie. By that measure only Lebron and Duncan are superstars everyone else is "fabricated" lol Iv nvr heard that uses in describeing a basketball player.
Yes, I know the Rockets made it to the finals. But Dream was a totally different players in the 90's than what he was in the 80's with his skill set and his maturity. We're seeing Harden grow and mature on the court now (especially on the defensive side of the ball). Harden has only been the focal point of a team for two years. Let's just give him time. Minnesota had Love for all of those years and never seen the playoffs but Rockets fans day dream about him all day. Portland had LMA for all of these years and just had their 1st taste of the playoffs with him. Most of the time in the NBA you just have to be patient and enjoy watching a player grow. Can't always expect instant success with these guys.
I could easily dive into the argument about who deserves to stand in the Rockets' Pantheon of great players, but I'll wait. We should revisit this thread as the season progresses. The journey is huge, sure, but it's where you arrive that tells the tale. Right now, James in carrying a team that should have collapsed with the injuries we've had, and I'm enjoying the hell out of it. Let's see where we end up. Moses took us to the Finals, won multiple MVP's during his career, carving his road to the Hall of Fame here in Houston, and mentored the Dream. Rudy and Murph are two Rockets with well deserved seats in the Hall of Fame. Ralph was an All World talent who uncorked The Shot and became a legend. Yao gave everything to the Rockets and won a place in my heart. The Big E was the first Rockets superstar, another mind blowing Hall of Famer. The Dream? The greatest Rocket to ever lace them up and he gave us two championships. Words don't do Hakeem justice. I am not worthy. I want to see where James take us. Then I'll be the first to polish the shoes on his statue in front of the Toy Box.
wait...so fool's gold is LOSING to the bad teams and WINNING against the good teams? no, THAT is fool's gold. That's thinking you're better than you are. I'm extremely excited that they're winning, despite the opposition. You're right, this team should be hovering around .500 at best with this ridiculous injury bug. That being said, I'd rather them beat the teams they should, and lose to the healthy teams that should beat them (if they have to lose at all I mean), and we'll face them later in the season at full-strength and already know we're ahead of the curve even without important elements of our team. The glass is half-full.
I think these other guys are starting to believe in him too. They seemed much more focused. I mean, Joey Dorsey finally looked like an NBA player to me last night. There was a two-defensive play set where he got be by Illyasova on a fake the drive pull up for a shot. The very next play he adjusted and stopped a pretty good offensive player. I'm not saying these guys are good, I'm saying they believe in themselves and it all feeds off of James Harden. Let's just hope that same belief resonates with Howard when he comes back. That dude playing with confidence… we are unstoppable.
Morey really did hit the jackpot. No way he could have imagined Harden would be this good when he traded for him. We're lucky. Only guys you'd even think about taking over Harden right now are Lebron, Durant, Davis, and maybe Westbrook or Curry.
Agreed, and we've beat the 2 teams that were in the NBA Finals last year, and also Dallas and Sacramento(playing well so far). It's not like we've beat nobodies. Hell, the Bucks were 3 games above .500 when we beat them. To me, this year is all about the playoffs. Get these guys ready for the playoffs. DMo getting important minutes and the ball during those minutes is huge. Papalickanow is obviously picking up the game and he's making fewer and fewer of the same mistakes. These guys are learning to win when their shot isn't falling. Canaan, our backup PG, is learning he can carry this team on offense for several minutes at a time. These are all good things. So if the playoffs are our goal, these wins look fantastic because they build towards something. Building and winning at the same time… life is good.
What do you guys feel about the concept that the beard is willing this team to win? In your eyes, has he taken that next level of mental toughness?
This is a steaming pile of pure uncut troll poop. Nicely done. Glad to see you have rejoined the board.
There is no single player in the league that I would trade Harden for. That includes LeBron. 25.8, 6.8, 6.2 or 24.9, 7.2, 5.8 or 24.9, 1.7, 11.3 (Davis) Give me Harden every day of the week, he makes his players around him better. LeBron is losing with Kyrie? Pelicans are losing with the best front court in the NBA? Yeah, Harden. Every day of the week. He helps DMo live up to his potential and Tarik Black look like a top 10 rookie.
New CF account Largely contrarian Maybe just a little too comfortable What account do you normally post under?
yeah but can he post up jj watt? it's been great watching his game evolve to the top. he had me frustrated. when he first came, I thought he was a top 4 player, then the defensive mental lapses happened thought he just didn't care to follow orders and fokkass. thanks to the dude that created that video. lowry should also thank that dude who told him to get off his arse and practice his shooting. =) "we're going to change this city" that's what harden told that boy, cole aldrich. that's real right there, compared to the dino-gossip of 'too much pressure to win' of the prehistoric reptilian bird or whatever bosh is.
multiple championship tier hakeem championship tier clyde playoff success tier moses, hayes, murphy, rudy regular season success tier yao, steve, tmac, harden, howard james has taken his game to another level this year, that's for sure. defense, leadership, ball movement, everything. still, in order to get into this "pantheon" i think we need to see results first.
The fact of the matter is Harden is a winner. Not in the playoffs yet but will be. If you take out Harden from this team it would be a lottery team but he has literally willed us to be a top contender and that's without Dwight for a good amount of games. AD has a better team than Harden right now (cause of injuries to us) but he isn't in the playoffs. Mavs have Parsons, Dirk, Ellis, Chander yet we're better than them. We're better than Portland who has Daminan Lillard, Wes Mattews, Nic Batum and Lamarcus just in their starting 5. We're better than the Spurs (the defending champions). 3rd in the Western Conference without Dwight beecause of one man only: Harden
