You are blowing Northside away treeman, keep up the good fight!!! The funny thing is he worries about laws in the good old USA so much when he is Canadian. I repped you earlier. I wish I could rep you on every post.
When people die at the hands of cops, something has gone wrong. A nation that places its police in that position and doesn't question what it can do better after thousands of dead because oh, this one was a thug, and this one played with the wrong gun---is a nation that will improve on nothing. You either think one of two things on America's imprisonment rate and the police's rule of engagements with civilians: 1) American society has fostered a world record number of dangerous criminals. 2) American policy has utterly failed at defining what criminal activity is (consider the high amount of non-violent drug offenders incarcerated). Holding a degree of belief in either, even wholeheartedly believing the first, demands a round of soul-searching for what is going wrong.
Did you read when I said where I got the exact stat of 5 thousand people and how I contextualized that with the ready admittance that all of this is murky because we need reform on official stats? That response wasn't even to you. Your personal sniping might be more appreciated if your "snipes" were actually well-warranted. In future, if bolding is intellectually dishonest to you, I'll keep it in mind that not only do I have to contextualize information for you, I have to ensure you know where to read.
Agreed, what went wrong is that someone raised a criminal that attacked cops. We should probably do a better job raising our kids so they don't grow up like that. They're cops, what position do you want them in? In this case the cop had just responded to a call and was driving away when morons were walking down the middle of the street....what better position should have cop have been in? Well there certainly are a ton of dangerous criminals in America as the murder rate can attest. Should we re-evaluate the definition of criminal activity to exclude robbery and assault? That's the only way this kid wouldn't be a criminal. You are conflating numerous issues that are simply not present in this case and acting as if they are relevant. Potheads getting arrested has nothing to do with a thief attacking a cop and getting shot as a result. What is going wrong is that people aren't raising their children right and they are becoming criminals and getting themselves killed. It really isn't that difficult.
That is ABSOLUTELY true. And it is almost always the result of someone like Michael Brown making a poor decision that leads to his death. It demands no such soul-searching from me, I am not the problem. And yeah, it's the first one. A VERY large chunk of this country's criminal activity - and police-related deaths - are a result of inner city gang activity. It is a cultural problem, but it's not one that the "protesters" in Ferguson are willing to look at. No, it's someone else's fault. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault. Michael Brown was not raised well by his parents. Had they taught him to respect others and to not steal, had they taught him to accept personal responsibility for his actions, he would be alive today. I suspect that his parents - at the least, his mother - has the same mindset. It is a cultural problem that allows such a mindset to continue within that community, and until that is addressed the crime problem will not be fixed. And until that crime problem is fixed, the "police" problems you worry about till not be addressed, because the police actions are simply reactions to crime - sometimes overreactions, yes. You are looking in the wrong place for an answer.
But you failed to contextualize it with the caveats on causes - while trying to insinuate that the cause must be due to police abuse. Stop trying to wiggle out of it. I am not gonna fall for your BS.
Northside Storm throws his bombs from the safety of Canada, which does not face the cultural challenges we face. Canada does not have to deal with waves of illegal immigration and inner city gangs committing crimes on scales unheard of in Europe or Canada. No, it's all the cops, gotta be the cops...
Right, so I could see how if you thought family units but not larger societal trends were directly responsible for everything than you would have this view, and why we disagree. I disagree that there is only one cause with regards to this, and that we can overlook this trend in increasing imprisonment, and excessive use of force just because you think familial responsibility is the only cause behind crime. I'll say this: cases like this bother me because they allow people to easily pooh pooh away deep societal questions we should be asking. It allows people to sit back and say "see, he was a thug, we don't have to do anything!" In this case, it's easier to make the muck-racking assertion. In other cases, other reasons are found to dismiss something that should be fundamentally troubling: the growing acceptance of excessive force to kill criminals. There is no doubt that Michael Brown was a criminal. There is a lot of doubt into how this situation could have gone down in a fashion that was fair, and didn't involve, once again, the death of an unarmed teenager.
What would I wiggle out of, I'm confused as to why you're trying to parse my bolding on a response to another poster's question. I mean, if you want me to spoonfeed information to you, that's fine, but that response wasn't even directed to you
These are very deep-rooted assumptions, do you have a source or data to contextualize, or are you just spitballing?
There is only doubt because you have seen too many movies and don't understand the dynamics of UOF situations. The only thing really sustaining this "debate" is your lack of knowledge of how things actually work in such situations and the actual options available in a situation like this. "He shoulda just drove away" is laughable and not worth serious consideration. I suggest you educate yourself on these matters before throwing out whatever you've seen happen in TV or movies, or whatever you can daydream up. Real life doesn't work that way.
LOL, are you serious? Do you really think that I am going to waste my time trying to convince a Canadian that some Americans don;t raise their kids right, and some Americans don;t accept responsibility for their actions? It's obvious to everyone, but you want a graph of some stats on it? LOL, GTFO :grin:
Reading is fundamental. Why do I need to keep repeating myself? You threw the numbers out there - bolded them, even - trying to insinuate that they were a result of police brutality. You did not caveat this A$$umption with the likelihood that the large majority of those deaths were the result of things outside of police control - you tried to gloss it over. I called you out on it. What's not to understand? Intellectual dishonesty - par for the course.
Wait, you think that larger societal trends are more influential than someone's family? That's odd but possible. No, it's not all on the family, but that is where a lot of blame should go. I do think that larger societal issues have some blame. Some cultures think it's acceptable to be criminals, that leads to more of their members being criminals. Either way, it's not the cop's fault that some people fail society and become criminals. I think the question should be, "Why was he a thug?" and "How did be become such an awful person". I have absolutely no problem with him being dead, because 1. He caused it and was essentially begging for it 2. The world is a better place without him in it, he was part of the problem. That said, we should be asking why we keep producing complete losers like Mike Brown instead of productive members of society. There was nothing at all unfair about this situation, if you attack someone that has a gun, you are asking to die, especially if that person is a cop. If they don't grant your wish, great, but it's not unfair if they choose to.
Most of your day-to-day assumptions are wrong. I can tell you that data proves increased education may actually lead to more terrorism. That the amount of money you think America gives in foreign aid is much less than it actually is. That a minimum wage increase can actually increase jobs. That a robot is more accurate than oncologists at diagnosing lung cancer. This is why people search for data when they spitball ideas. Otherwise they're just that: ideas. And ideas are worthless. If you want to remain in that realm, that's fine.. But in the long run that sort of thinking bodes ill for any number of ideas you want to advance into data. It also leads to less interesting discussions with slower learning, but I suppose that's just a personal pet peeve.
I'm not averse to the notion that families can do a better job of raising their children---but I do think making aspersions on Micheal Brown's family is not the way to go given the dearth of information we have on that topic. I think if you expanded a bit of the scope into what could be done productively in terms of LTL options (a new term I learned, cool), and policing rules, and better data collection/accountability---we'd be more in sync.
Translation: "I am a super-smarty mega-intelligent handsome guy who always knows the right answer, and if you don't throw some peer-reviewed studies or some hard numbers at me then you are a dork and you HAVE to be wrong." Alternate translation: "I am a typical liberal and I know what's right. You don't." I don't need to search the internet to make the assertion that many inner city communities are suffering from a breakdown of the nuclear family, and that there is a correlating drastic rise in criminal activity. You can choose to find no causal relationship between the two if you want. That would be very Canadian, and very liberal of you, but us dumb hicks know that there is a relationship, we don't need a Harvard study telling us it's so. So are we talking about inappropriate police tactics, the Brown shooting, or America's cultural woes here? Seems like you keep dodging.
The use of government force has had a very marked impact on my personal experience, and that of my family---in many ways it has shaped perhaps my more extreme views on the stance. You may say that Canada is safe. That does not mean that all Canadians have been, especially given the diverse set of origins a nation of immigrants encompasses.
Here's a fine parent for ya: Michael Brown’s mother may face felony armed robbery charges: report The mother of Michael Brown could be charged with felony armed robbery for allegedly attacking people in a Ferguson, Mo., parking lot because they were selling T-shirts honoring the late teenager. The Ferguson Police Department is currently investigating claims that Lesley McSpadden brought a group of people — including her own mother — to beat vendors and rob them of their “Justice for Mike Brown” merchandise Oct. 18, The Smoking Gun has learned. One person was hospitalized in the reported attack and another unidentified alleged victim was reportedly beaten with a pipe. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/michael-brown-mom-face-felony-armed-robbery-charges-article-1.2001373 This is where he is coming from.
I don't even think of this as right or wrong tbh. We're talking about this if you forgot--- And how America could improve on that.
