When I smoked weed back in my younger days I just wanted to sit on the couch watching Ren and Stimpy, eat Cheetos and laugh at ****e. But not everyone reacts that way; some people get violent. Most people don't, but I have known some who did. And when adrenaline starts pumping, it takes over.
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2228 "Provides data on the circumstances of deaths that occur during, or shortly after, state or local law enforcement officers engage in an arrest or restraint process. Data from the Arrest-Related Deaths (ARD) component of the Deaths in Custody Reporting Program (DCRP) represent a national accounting of persons who have died during the process of arrest from 2003 through 2009. The ARD program includes homicides by law enforcement personnel as well as deaths attributed to suicide, intoxication, accidental injury, and natural causes. Data collected include information about the date of death, manner and cause of death, the decedent's demographic characteristics, the decedent's behavior during the events leading up to the death, and the tactics and weapons used by law enforcement personnel." There is however, no national database on deaths caused by excessive force, which means this is only a ballpark figure---one that often underreports what is happening. The exact number comes from this article--- US Police Have Killed Over 5,000 Civilians Since 9/11 http://www.mintpressnews.com/us-police-murdered-5000-innocent-civilians-since-911/172029/ Of course, murky data highlights one reform that does have to come out of this--- http://newamericamedia.org/2014/11/...eed-for-national-data-on-police-shootings.php
The ROE are the way they are because cops HAVE to have the ability to defend themselves in fast moving situations. They don't get to armchair quarterback a situation with 20/20 hindsight, they are caught in a fast moving situation that demands action IMMEDIATELY or someone is gonna die. Until you have been in a situation like that you have no idea how it feels, and the ROE are designed to give them the ability and the tools they need to survive those situations. They will ALWAYS prefer a peaceful resolution. They will generally attempt to use the LTL option if it is appropriate. But if it is not - and it clearly was not in this case - then they need ROE that allow them to do what they must to go home at the end of the day.
The way police have engaged with the community have led to sky-high prison rates (intensely relevant to a discussion about police rules of engagement) and thousands of deaths. If you don't try to redefine those norms the only thing left to do is to accept them. Hands up if you think policing in America works. As for being naive about the police use of force---please join the protests in Hong Kong when you have the chance.
Sorry, wanted to make sure you read this part That transitions to the rest of the parts---you may want to take a read before I question your reading skills
I still remember Sam posting all those photographs in Hangout of a trip he took to Asia, some being quite remarkable. What was hilarious about that is that a member of the "Yao is a God, China is Heaven, and the rest of you are unworthy!" club that we used to have here subsequently accused him of being an agent of the CIA. Not kidding the least bit. The loon thought Sam was a spy, here to rake China over the coals for the greater good of the United States of America (long may she reign!). So same here. I don't always agree with Sam or his tactics, but putting him on ignore? That would deprive me of a lot of entertainment, along with some very insightful posts when he's in the mood to be insightful. Besides, I'm given members hell before myself when they were essentially begging for it. I just pick my spots more than Sam does, Sam preferring a shotgun to a .22 caliber target pistol, my weapon of choice in D&D. ;-)-
In certain areas officers are not allowed to engage in high speed chase due to concerns for the public's safety. In this scenario a police officer opening fire on a fleeing (at least initially) Wilson, strikes me as possibly a public safety concern. Strays could hit bystanders.
Here you go this is one of the stories that i have read about this case http://www.dailydot.com/politics/ferguson-prosecutor-indicted-cop-for-using-baton/
You wanted to make sure I read the author's opinion. Well... OK. I find it laughable that you throw out a stat and completely ignore the fact that many - likely a sizeable majority - of those deaths are not the result of police abuses. Intoxication deaths are fairly common, are they the fault of the police? Someone has a heart attack while being arrested - cop's fault? Someone kills themselves while being arrested - those damned dirty cops made him do it! It's pretty intellectually dishonest of you to throw those numbers out without acknowledging the context. But of course, you have a narrative that you need to fill out with some numbers, and the narrative is far more important than reality, right?
And all of the evidence - multiple eyewitness testimonials included - suggests that Ofc. Wilson did not fire at a fleeing Brown, that he fired when Brown inexplicably turned and charged him. Strays hitting bystanders is always a problem. Only training can mitigate that.
The rules are wrong. That's why the iceberg is so large. This is what I have been arguing since the beginning.
You're absolutely right. It has absolutely nothing to do with people committing crimes, it's all the police's fault.
The rules are fine. You are wrong. This is what I have been arguing since the beginning. See how that works?
??? I deliberately included the context right in the post, you didn't even have to click the link to realize the context of the number. :/ The narrative I have is that the numbers are a bit murky and we need better numbers---please read to the end.
So, in your mind, cops are making people break the law? It's the police's fault that criminals are criminals? Wow. For the most part it does. Yes, you are absolutely naive about quite a few things, and I'm not usually on the side of police because I generally don't get along with them. However, they have a job to do and they aren't always wrong. This case is one of those times. Well that's interesting, if the cop's version of the story is legit, then he's got nothing to worry about.
No, your narrative is that the cops are a bunch of thug killers, and you bolded a number around 5k, implying that that was the number of individuals unjustly killed by police during arrests. Had you made the obvious caveat to the number I wouldn't have had to respond to it the way I did. Again, intellectually dishonest, but par for the course.
