But harden doesn't shoot mid so what's keeping the defense from just falling back into the paint? This is why they don't use it much . it worked for players like amare /Nash and Malone /Stockton because the guards could shoot if open
Good thread and I wanted to bring this up at some point. It's quite simple IMO. Dwight's post ups against good post defenders inevitably result in a brick or turnover and kill the offense. 1. Do not post up Dwight against big defenders like Gasol. When you start the game off against these guys, run the simple high tempo offense. Pick n Roll Harden n Dwight to death with shooters spaced out. Problem with posting up Dwight is that it takes the ball and the offense out of our #1 guy in Harden. If anything, go to him for 1 or 2 possessions and see if he has it on that night. 2. Dwight leaves at around 8 min of the 1st Q and then starts off the 2nd Q with Harden on the bench. This is the best time to run Dwight post ups and have the offense go through him because 1) He is likely to be against the back up C; 2) He will be surrounded by shooters in JET, Canaan, Cisco, Pap (?) and 3) Harden is not on the floor and there is no real offensive creator left. 3. It's sad to say but when Dwight and Harden are on the floor, Dwight has to just play D, set strong picks and run the pick n roll - basically be a rich man's Asik.
I don't think the post play is necessarily the problem - it's WHEN we have been using it. For instance, last night Houston comes out of a timeout and it's clear that the message from the coach is get Dwight the ball inside to get some easy baskets(this is in the midst of that 1st quarter Memphis run). Makes sense because he is our best interior scorer BUT getting Dwight the ball inside isn't the same as getting him the ball in the post which is what we seem to be doing. Playing low post slug it out ball with Memphis of all people is just playing to their strengths....but I don't think that is coming from Dwight so much as coming from McHale. It seems like McHale has that old school "establish an inside presence to free up shooters on the outside" mentality. The biggest problems with the post ups is it stagnates the offense - guys turn into passive release valves and Dwight is forced to press the issue. There are few cutters, no screeners, etc. In short Dwight has little options but to try to force up a shot through a defender. That's on both Dwight and the team but especially the coaching. That used to happen in the Hakeem days too and it was truly painful to watch. ...back to my original point though - this is a team that thrives on creating mismatches and beating those mismatches to get a score or force the defense to rotate and then utilizing good passing to find open shooters. The way to get the Rockets easy buckets in a slump is to keep everyone moving and reacting to how the defense shifts to compensate. Our post up play immediately takes us out of that. I think Dwight should get the ball in the post a few times a game, but I don't think you do it when you need to get the offense kick started. Out of a McHale timeout, we should have some sort of real play rather than drop it in the post and stand around on the perimeter.
This!!!! We keep saying this.... Harden and Howard should run the pick and roll at least 40 times a Game. When they switch through the Lob if they don't Harden needs to finish. The defensive will then have to adjust and send weak side help and when they do we "have" to kick it to Bev or Ariza in the corner and they "have" to shoot it. Terry and Canaan can also knock that shot down. DMO and PAPA have no business shooting that shot and "Morey" needs to make an exception and require these guys to shoot the 15-18 footer I can live with shooting the open three if it comes from within the offense. It is the random ones that are killing us. Our defense and turnovers lost us the Memphis Game
This. The 3-or-rim tactic tells the defense to go under the pick with Harden. They know Harden doesn't do much pull up shot unless he's outside the 3pt line. So if they do PnR inside the line, the guard defender just goes under the screen to prevent the drive and the big defender stays with Howard.
Howard isn't using his move like he did the first 2 games. He's also using too many dribbles and waiting too long to make his move. He should make his move in 2-3 dribble or less. On a side note, I think the investigation of child abuse is taking it's toll on him. He look emotionally detatched from basketball right now
I agree with the know when to do it crowd. Beyond that, though, I'd like to see some numbers. The eye test is neutral. Sometimes he dominates in post-ups and they lose. Sometimes he never posts up and they lose. Whether with the Rockets, or other teams, he has plenty long of a history now that DATA should yield the results...
You have to practice stuff in real games, over and over. You can't just rely on team scrimmages. And you can't say "Today let's have a great post up game against team X." You have to develop it. It's just now developing. Lin and Parsons sucked at getting Howard the ball, as a matter of fact. The team is trying to establish the post up in their own game right now. Later they can get fancy with turning it on and turning it off.
Dwight has to put in real effort in games on post ups. You can tell he does things just going through the motions expecting it to work just because he feels he is better and that's that. Nooooo you gotta go 100% to take over the paint against certain competition.
(To continue . . .) And you can't just say "This doesn't work against them." That's like saying "We always lose to them." You have to try to change it and get better. Basically, many people in this thread are ready to surrender permanently to certain teams in certain aspects of the game. You really want Dwight/McHale/the Rockets to say "Yeah, player X has got us beat there. Give it up"? Maybe in the playoffs, which is not the time for practice and self-improvement. But in the regular season? All right: come on and make a list of all the teams that you want to concede the post up game to. We can just mark them off on our schedule now.
I agree that it's a problem, but abandoning the post game is not going to resolve anything. You keep posting him up and make him figure it out. He was a far better post player in Orlando than he is here. He needs his confidence back. Shutting down his offense does nothing for his confidence.
It'd be nice if he didn't feel compelled to shoot every time. Very rarely does he pass to cutters or kick back out to open shooters, and on the rare times he does, it's after a bunch of dribbling and backing down his man and the defense is able to adjust. Having said that...we also don't have too many times where guys cut hard to the basket. Normally it's just them getting out of the way.
I think what others are saying and I agree is you play to other teams weaknesses not their strengths. If a team has a great post defender then run pick and rolls. Make that defender do something they aren't as good at or comfortable with. It's all about match ups. Adjusting to the team you are playing against.
Dwight has a pretty bad field goal percentage. It's crazy because all his shots are layups and jump hooks. And some of the turnovers he commits just kills our momemtun. For the life of me, I just can understand why he continues to turn and face while showing the ball. What's wrong with simple back downs?. Guys aren't gonna just stand there and allow you to just run around them. The offense went through harden at the beginning of the season. Now it's just strictly howard post ups even when our best player is on the floor. That's just bad coaching strategy. Dwight needs to set screens and go to the boards instead of demanding the ball in the post only to **** it up time and time again.
The best post player on our team is Dmo, but we never post him. We make him a spot up shooter 3pt shooter. SMH on our offense. Especially in the OKC game, DMO made a beautiful move on Ibaka early in the game and we never went back to him. We should have posted Dmo up way more instead of letting Serge Ibaka was just floating around freely. You have to attack the shot blocker and make him play man defense.
Been saying it since last season. The Synergy stats say it all. He was the worst post player in the NBA in terms of our points per possession on his post ups. Then there's the free throw shooting. It doesn't really click to many that if he misses both free throws, it's essentially a turnover. I'm sure privately, Morey would kill to have Marc Gasol instead.
We also seem to have no clue how to counter any defense other than man to man. There was literally a point in the first quarter last night when Z-Bo came over to double Dwight on the the entry pass and the play stopped dead. They didn't swing the ball to make Randolph rotate back to his man, or swing it to the the open shooter, or find the open lane. Same thing when they front him. We all know that Dwight has a rather limited post game but his team mates and coaches need to game plan better around him.
