We should do 3 way with Indiana and Atlanta where we get Hortford or milsap Hibbert to atl And we trade package or no pick , jones and whatever it takes for the two sides.
Even a "low" buy from Atlanta's perspective might cost the Rockets more than what they already have. He's great value for the Hawks and they really have no reason to trade him or Millsap. They aren't going to truly tank. Thats a given. So what reason does their inner circle have to trade him or Millsap? I'd love for the Rockets to acquire either player, but let's play a game here for a minute. I'm one of the managing owners of the Hawks currently who says there isn't a compelling reason to trade him & is totally happy being the underdog 6th seed playoff team that still sells out 70% of their games and is afraid to be the next Philly. Convince me to think otherwise.
A true "buy low" scenario would be doing something like trading for Danilo Gallinari right now as the Nuggets are truly horrible looking and Gallinari looks like a shell of his former self, & his contract isn't getting any better. That is "buying low" Trading for Horford or Millsap right now currently on a team that is absolutely looking like a playoff team when they are producing well on value salaries isn't buying low... that's "Selling High".
I'll play along just because I'm curious how this plays out. You might be content with being a 6 seed in the east but do you think milsap is? He can walk next off season to a contender. You might do everything you can to convince him to stay....offering more money than anyone else. But can you improve enough this season to compel him to stay? If Milsap has the leverage to walk on any team he gets traded to (including ATL if he isn't traded) you aren't getting 100% value for him from any team. And your trade partners are really limited to title contenders since he'd be a high risk to walk on a middle to low tier team. What WC title contender has the best package to offer that needs a PF like milsap?
No one can read Millsaps mind. IMHO to obtain Millsap right now would probably take the NOP pick, D-Mo and Papa. I don't even know if that would be enough. And the Rockets, as a team, would be much poorer because of that trade.
That's why I'd think ATL would feel uneasy enough to possibly trade him. They can't read his mind either. The package you suggest is really Pap for Milsap in terms of on court performance. I love Pap and what he can develop into but we're talking about solidifying the 4 spot by sacrficing depth at the wing. If that's what it'd take I'd do that trade in a second.
Agreed on all counts. Horford could be attainable, who knows, but it won't be a 'buy low' and the assets Houston has certainly won't get the job done for a Hawks team that is perfectly content just making playoffs, assuming a direct trade.
Good retort, and good way to see how this dialog will unfold in the owners meetings. My response- First off: I bring up the point that Paul received his first all-star appearance last year, and so far looks to be in line to get another appearance this year. He will not be an all-star on almost any other NBA team, and especially not a contending team. I say we go to Paul this February(call it a mid-season meeting) and say we want to pay you above market value this Summer, keep you as a top 2 options in the offense, and we add talent to help contend in the wide open East. How do you feel about how this season is going, and where do you see this team going? People say you can't read his mind, but you can absolutely get a good read on how he's feeling about this team in February to make a good enough decision on how much he enjoys his situation & if he'd be happy to stay with the team beyond this year. I personally don't see how Paul says no to that in February of this year & that he's not committed to the Hawks going into the Spring/Summer regardless of what happens in the playoffs. Come this Summer if Paul gets alot of traction in free agency, the two main questions I have is: Are we (the Hawks) still the first team on list to meet with him with that home team advantage and do we think he will NOT command a Parsons like contract(and only get fair market offers)? IMO the answer to those questions would be yes, than I think the group consensus in the room would be to NOT trade Paul Millsap under these assumptions. You'd have to have a guy in the room that can make a super compelling case that Paul Millsap will not just get overpaid by a desperate team, but will get SUPER overpaid. But please I'd like to see a retort to that response. This is a good exercise for you guys to understand how these conversations go when teams are contemplating moving players. I'm sure whenever the Rockets had meetings about Parsons and his contract future with the Rockets there was someone in the room that could make a pretty compelling case that in restricted free agency there was X percentage of risk involved with him getting offer a ridiculous amount above market value and they took that as a pretty compelling case (that they then had to risk swallowing). If there is someone in the room that can make that case for Paul Millsap getting highly overpaid, it could then swing the vote around to owners that want to keep him.
I think Cyberx info about morey wanting to pursue milsap with cap space this summer is a leverage move. There really aren't any other contending teams in need of a 4 as bad as the rox. Us having the cap space to sign him in FA puts pressure on ATL to seriously consider trading him or risk losing him. If the Rox didn't have the space to sign him I think Milsaps options in FA are limited. The only reason he'd walk is to contend and if no contender has cap space he might as well stay with ATL for the money.
Morey - "Millsap is going to walk to me in July, and since you don't have full-bird rights, you won't have a financial advantage over me in free agency. Here's TJones, who is signed for at least another year and is restricted after that."
Hey Daryl. Oh really... Financial Advantage? What exactly are you offering Paul this Summer than. You don't know what we are prepared to offer him so how do you know that its more than we are prepared to offer. Please do tell. I'm pretty sure GM's never reveal their hand in discussing future contract offers. If anything, you'd hear Morey say little nuances that insinuated Paul is worth less or that they would pay less for him in FA rather than more. If Morey came at me talking max contract after that, I'd probably call his bluff and say I'll believe it when I see it. Its probably best if Morey just avoids finances all together if he's trying to convince Atlanta into moving Millsap.
1st - Millsap is not a shoein to be an all-star this year. Since there's just guards and forwards now, he's going up against Gasol, Noah, Love and others for a spot. 2nd - Atlanta will likely be in the exact same position at the end of this year as they were at the end of last....an average team that will make the playoffs in the East but wouldn't sniff it in the west. Is that supposed to convince Millsap to stay? 3rd - how confident are you that Atlanta will really be able to "add talent" around Millsap. When is the last time they really "added talent"? 4th - unless I'm mistaken, Atlanta has no "home team" advantage financially. They have early-bird rights, which allows them to give him a 4 year contract at 150% of his current pay with 4.5% increases (if they decide to function above the cap). They don't have any advantage over a team with cap space. So for those reasons, I do not think it's a sure thing he returns to Atlanta, and I do believe it's an incentive for them to trade him. That said, I do not think Millsap is the target. LMA and Horford are....whether we can get them is a different story.
I'd say given his performance last year and at least the first half of this year has already established his value as an All Star/Borderline All Star. I think the league has at least already seen his value. So unless Milsap is personally thinks he's a Tier 1 superstar I don't think he have to prove much more. I'd say this reasoning depends greatly on whether Milsap wants to be a number 2 option on a middle tier team without a realistic shot at getting out of the east, or to be a 3rd option on a title contender. I think you're right in that as the "Home Team" you'd be able to get a feel for that come February. So if you're primary points are a) stay with us bc you'll perform better here with us, then I'd say you'd have to bet on him wanting to look better stats wise vs. wanting to compete for a title. b) convince Paul you'll build a contender around him as part of the core in the next 3 years. That depends entirely on how much Paul believes and trusts the FO and it's track record. c) Show him the money. As Finsraider mentioned, y'all would only have his early bird rights. How much of a financial advantage is there over what the Rockets could offer and is it lucrative enough to get him to stay on a team with a lessor chance of title contention? On all counts a-c isn't a slam dunk for ATL and hence the risk that exists of him walking. As the Rox all I can do is create the space to sign Milsap and place pressure on you that he might very well walk to us and you'd get nothing. All I risk is keeping cap space free.
Good responses. Again... I'm just playing the part of stubborn owning partner. I want to see a compelling case for trading him, and more importantly.... a MAJOR PAIN POINT that Morey can address in trade talks. Think of Morey's calls to Atlanta like a Salesperson calling a potential buyer. You can't sell steak knifes going door to door to a vegetarian household neighborhood. Know what your buyer really perceives as a need that you can directly address with your solution.
That's not what I'm saying. This is not a Bosh situation. Atlanta will not have a financial advantage over Houston if Houston is using cap space. You're right that I don't know what Houston would offer, but Atlanta doesn't know what Millsap is willing to accept, and they can't control him in free agency. And it's not that Morey would even need to bring this up......everyone can do the math. It's merely the threat that Houston *could* take him in free agency for nothing in return that could bring Atlanta to the table. Look at it this way.......if Atlanta really is "content" as the 6th seed, then that may actually be an incentive to trade Millsap for a player like TJones, who is locked in for the next 2-3 years.
Could we trade T Jones and Capella for Milsap since it falls under the lin exception money wise or nah
I agree with the position and rationale you portray for ATL's FO. There is a risk of losing Milsap but I don't think that risk is high enough for them to make a trade yet. The only real "PAIN POINT" as you say would come from Milsap himself leaking out that he's not happy and will test FA. At that point, ATL would be leveraged into having conversations like this with DM.
I see what you're saying. *Right now*, you are correct. If I'm Atlanta, nothing has really changed for me. But at the trade deadline, with new ownership and maybe even a new GM, things may be different. I think most GMs would look at Millsap as a guy to sell to the highest bidder. He's not a transcendent player, and he's an unrestricted free agent in July. Houston is probably the very best trade partner, as they have desirable assets and they have a need.
