Bill Maher and Sam Harris arguing with Ben Affleck about Islam

There is an absolute refusal by many Muslims to look at facts objectively and to realize and admit that Muslims do bad things. This has its roots in the ideology itself. "Islam is perfect", "Islam must not be insulted", "Islam must not be left or death is the appropriate penalty".

That's why a huge majority of Muslims in many countries still refuses to accept that 9/11 was committed by Arabs/Muslims.

This survey is from 2011:



http://www.pewglobal.org/2011/07/21/muslim-western-tensions-persist/

The same attitude is apparent when one questions tenets of the ideology here, criticizes or challenges Islam. Extreme defensiveness, aggressive accusations, and complete avoidance of addressing the actual facts and issues. I have asked many times, and politely, for an opinion by one of the usual Muslim apologists and/or Muslims about the fact that a majority of Muslims in some of the most populous Muslim nations demands the death penalty for leaving Islam and stoning of adulterers. Every single one of them has avoided addressing this so far. The only thing you see is some people trying to divert the conversation and make it about me instead.

Even now, with ISIS slaughtering scores of people in the name of Islam and basically enforcing strict Sharia law, which is an actual wish of the majority of Muslims in many countries, so they actually agree with that goal (if not with the methods), Muslims come up with the craziest conspiracy theories: ISIS must have been created by Israel/the Mossad and the USA (both serve as scapegoat for everything, even for killing in the name of Islam).

Just look at the poster "Exiled". The sad thing is, he is not an outlier. Just like the majority in the Pew poll above from 2011 ignores facts and reality and rather believes that "all Jews got the day off on 9/11 and were told to stay home, and Israel/Mossad/the USA did this", many many Muslims (I don't know if it is the majority) will want to believe that ISIS was created by Israel/the Mossad/the USA. Or they absolve their ideology of any responsibility by saying "these people are not Muslims, because Islam is perfect".

No, it is not. It is the actual cause of the murders. It is totalitarian and backwards. Any ideology where the majority of its followers want to kill someone just because he or she wants to believe in something else does not deserve respect - it needs to either be totally reformed so that basic human rights such as the freedom to choose what religion one wants to believe in are respected, or people need to be educated about how backwards it is. Doing that is not bigotry. Doing that is fighting for liberal ideas in the truest sense of the word, and against totalitarianism.

 

Wtf did I just read.

Have you joined yet?

 

Thank you

Spoiler

for once again displaying your true colors.

 

I will ignore the personal attacks and will address your statement that this is something that "won't ever happened".

Here are some links for you:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...death-penalty-apostasy-20145159264775754.html

Islamic Bloc Silent on Apostasy Death Sentence for Christian Mother in Sudan

(CNSNews.com) – The sentencing to death of a pregnant Sudanese Christian mother convicted of “apostasy” has drawn sharp condemnation from a number of Western countries – but no word from the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), a number of whose member-states have apostasy laws on their books.
At least 21 OIC members have laws at a national or state level penalizing apostasy, or leaving Islam. Eleven are Arab states, including Sudan and Saudi Arabia, while the rest are in Asia (Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Malaysia, Maldives, Brunei) and Africa (Mauritania, Nigeria, Somalia, Comoros).

Last Thursday a Sudanese court sentenced 27 year-old Meriam Yahia Ibrahim Ishag to death by hanging after refusing to recant her Christian faith in the prescribed three days since her conviction for apostasy.

Ibrahim, who is eight months pregnant and is incarcerated together with her 20 month-old son, was also sentenced to 100 lashes for “adultery.” The Sudan Tribune explained that since under Sudan’s shari’a law her marriage to a non-Muslim was considered invalid, the relationship was therefore deemed to be adulterous.

The governments of the United States, Canada, Britain, France and the Netherlands are among those that have publicly condemned the conviction and sentence.

U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) Chairman Robert George called it “a travesty for religious freedom and human rights in Sudan.”

“International attention to this case is critical to holding the Sudanese government accountable for its constitutional provisions and international commitments to protect and respect freedom of religion or belief not only for Mrs. Ibrahim, but all Sudanese, regardless of faith,” he said.

(The USCIRF also pointed out that Ibrahim insists she did not convert from Islam to Christianity but was in fact raised a Christian: Her mother was a Christian and her Muslim father left the family when she was a young girl.)

The OIC, the 57-member Islamic bloc whose Saudi-based secretariat regularly issues statements on matters of concern relating to the Muslim world, has been silent on the case so far.

Five years ago the OIC’s International Islamic Fiqh Academy, which issues global religious edicts on the OIC’s behalf, met to discuss contentious issues including that of apostasy, but scholars at the conference disagreed over ruling out the death penalty for offenders.

The meeting issued a fatwa that affirmed support for the traditional view of apostasy while at the same time invoking conditional religious freedom.

“Avowed apostasy constitutes a danger to the unity of the Muslim community and to the Muslims’ belief. It also encourages non-Muslims or hypocrites to use it as a means whereby to cast doubts,” it said. “A person who does so deserves to be punished for apostasy, which is only to be meted out by the judiciary. This is to ward off the danger posed by such a person and to protect society and keep it safe. This ruling does by no means contradict religious freedom that is ensured by Islam for whosoever respects religious sensitivities and the society’s values and general order.”

The fatwa did not spell out the punishment for an unrepentant apostate.

Three days to repent

Several Islamic states impose the death penalty for apostasy.

Article 146 of Sudan’s criminal code says that a Muslim who renounces Islam must be put to death unless he or she recants within three days.

Mauritania’s criminal code also provides for a three-day period of reflection and repentance for any Muslim found guilty of apostasy. “If he does not repent within this time limit, he is to be condemned to death as an apostate and his property will be confiscated by the Treasury,” it says.

Saudi Arabia placed apostasy on a par with rape, murder and drug trafficking as offenses punishable by death.

Iran’s treatment of apostates drew international attention with the case of Youcef Nadarkhani, a pastor sentenced to death for apostasy more than a decade after his conversion. After a lengthy legal battle he was eventually acquitted in September 2012.

In Afghanistan, a Christian convert named Abdul Rahman was sentenced to death in 2006 for apostasy, but after the U.S. and other Western members of the coalition forces there brought pressure to bear on the Karzai administration, he was freed and allowed to seek asylum abroad.

Five years later another Afghan convert to Christianity, Said Musa, found himself in a similar plight. Again, international condemnation saw him freed and able to leave the country.

Just last month Brunei, a small sultanate in Southeast Asia, became the latest OIC state to introduce the death penalty for apostasy, among other shari’a-based punishments including stoning for adultery and limb amputation for theft.

‘Kill him’

As has happened on past occasions when an apostasy case has gained international attention some Islamic advocacy groups sought to distance the latest incident in Sudan from Islam.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) drew attention to a position statement on apostasy first issued in 2009, which says, “Islamic scholars say the original rulings on apostasy were similar to those for treasonous acts in legal systems worldwide and do not apply to an individual's choice of religion.”

CAIR cited several verses from the Qur’an, including one saying “let there be no compulsion in religion” (sura 2:256)

But scholars defending the death-for-apostasy view point to the Islamic canonical tradition called the Hadith, which does contain references to execution for apostasy, including one in which Mohammed commands, “Any [Muslim] person who has changed his religion, kill him.”

That view still carries significant support in some Muslims countries, opinion surveys indicate.

A Pew Research poll in 2010 found large majorities in Jordan (86 percent), Egypt (84 percent) and Pakistan (76 percent) voiced support for the death penalty for apostates from Islam.

Three years later, Pew found majority support for that view in Afghanistan, Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan, Malaysia and the Palestinian territories.

Support was far lower in other Muslim countries, including Tunisia (29 percent), Indonesia (18 percent), Turkey (17 percent) and Kazakhstan (4 percent).

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/pat...postasy-death-sentence-christian-mother-sudan

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#Execution

 

Do you have a non-terrible idea on how to solve the problem?

 

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3572/islam-apostasy-death

"If They [Muslims] Had Gotten Rid of the Punishment for Apostasy, Islam Would Not Exist Today"

The most influential Sunni leader in the Middle East has just admitted what many of us who grew up as Muslims in the Middle East have always known: that Islam could not exist today without the killing of apostates. Yusuf al-Qaradawi, head of the Muslim Brotherhood and one of the most respected leaders of the Sunni world, recently said on Egyptian television, "If they [Muslims] had gotten rid of the punishment [often death] for apostasy, Islam would not exist today." The most striking thing about his statement, however, was that it was not an apology; it was a logical, proud justification for preserving the death penalty as a punishment for apostasy. Al-Qaradawi sounded matter-of-fact, indicating no moral conflict, nor even hesitation, about this policy in Islam. On the contrary, he asserted the legitimacy of Islamic laws in relying on vigilante street justice through fear, intimidation, torture and murder against any person who might dare to leave Islam.

Many critics of Islam agree with Sheikh Qaradawi, that Islam could not have survived after the death of the prophet Mohammed if it were not for the killing, torturing, beheading and burning alive of thousands of people -- making examples of them to others who might wish to venture outside Islam. From its inception until today, Islam has never considered this policy inappropriate, let alone immoral. In a recent poll, 84% of Egyptians agree with the death penalty for apostates; and we see no moderate Muslim movement against this law. That 1.2 billion Muslims appear comfortable with such a command sheds light on the nature of Islam.

Unlike Americans, who understand basic principles of their constitution, most Muslims have no clue about the basic laws of their religion. Most Muslims choose ignorance over knowledge when it comes to Islam, and often refuse to comment negatively out of fear of being accused of apostasy. While in the West it is considered a virtue to try to understand one's religion, ask questions about it and make choices accordingly, in the Muslim world doing the same thing is the ultimate sin punishable by death. What the West prides itself on, is a crime under Islamic law.

The main concern of Muslim citizens in any Islamic state is staying safe, alive and away from being accused of doing or saying anything against Islamic teachings. In such an atmosphere of fear and distrust, harm can come not only from the government, but from friends, neighbors and even family members, who are protected from prosecution for killing anyone they regard as an apostate.

It is not a coincidence that Muslim countries have the highest rate of illiteracy and that they lack education: in an Islamic culture that criminalizes not only apostasy, but also asking questions or doubting, ignorance is a virtue that protects you.

The Islamic and Judeo-Christian cultures are polar opposites when it comes to value systems and moral compasses -- the core divisions between Islamic and Western morality. No religion other than Islam kills those who leave it -- probably a sign of Islamic leaders' lack of confidence in Islam's ability to survive among other religions that do not kill to keep their followers in line.

In a different Egyptian television show on the "Al-Tahrir" channel, in a discussion of Islamic textbooks from Al-Azhar -- the world's premier Islamic University, in Cairo -- students were told that "any Muslim, without permission of the ruler, can kill and barbeque a murtad [apostate] and eat him." This lesson was confirmed to be in official Egyptian government books for high school students. The stunned guest on the TV show could not believe that Egyptian students of Islam are being taught that cannibalism of apostates is halal [permitted].

Policies such as these should be of great concern to the West. The West, however, appears to be in denial. It refuses to be openly concerned; and when its citizens are concerned, they are suppressed. They are sued [Geert Wilders, Lars Hedegaard, Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff, Mark Steyn, Ezra Levant]; assaulted [Kurt Westergaard in Denmark, Lars Vilks in Sweden, Charlie Hedbo weekly journal in France]; threatened with deportation [currently, Imran Firasat, from Spain to Pakistan, and Reza Jabbari from Sweden to Iran, where both will most likely be either imprisoned or sentenced to death]; issued death threats [Salman Rushdie, Geert Wilders, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, M. Zuhdi Jasser], and sometimes murdered [Theo van Gogh].

Instead of soberly facing the threat of Islam, the West has become desensitized to all the murderous videos pouring out of the Muslim world. There is no outrage in Western governments, media or NGOs over what we hear and see sluicing daily out of the Middle East: the photos of hundreds of Christians burned alive by Muslims in Nigeria; the videos of beheadings and burning-alive of apostates to be found all over the internet; or the daily Islamic reminders -- from many political leaders, Arab television, and the pulpits of mosques, Arab television and political leaders -- that, in their opinion, Jews are the descendants of apes and pigs.

If we are to preserve Western freedoms for future generations, it is time to change our dismissal of, and indifference to, the deep-rootedness of these views.

Westerners have been investing a lot of time, effort and money trying to understand Islam, when all they need to do is listen to what Muslim leaders are saying. American foreign policy priorities should not be the appeasement of an Islamic culture desperate for approval, but protecting its citizens, culture and constitution from all morally bankrupt and tyrannical ideologies.

Nonie Darwish is President of FormerMuslimsUnited.org and author "The Devil We Don't Know."

 

And do you have a concrete suggestion? Do you think doing nothing solves the problem?