I don't know if that's true, but it's not what I was saying. I just said the British shat in every colony they left. What happened afterwards is obviously influenced by many factors.
It's consistently amazing how Muslim leaders **** in their own backyard and then pose for the statue.
American living in HK here. I oppose the Occupy Movement. Of course, those occupier will screaming and cursing at me and call me names, but that's typical of those young kids. Saw a guy from Sweden posting yesterday that he was chatting with a cop and those occupy kids came out and started calling him names for just talking. On the surface, it's calling for democracy, but it's actually a lot things accumulated over the years that got sparked by it. It's almost like the poor versus the rich. Young kids who can't afford housing just trying to take out the rich and get their piece. Anyway, just my opinion. I've been yelled at by other expats here for expressing my opinion, but there are also some expats sharing similar views. I did convince a local kid after reasoning with him though. This morning he came in the office and told me the first thing that he no longer support occupy. Two of his sisters oppose it but he did support it at first, then he changed his mind. LOL
Oh, I think in the long run, if this thing keeps going for a while and things get chaotic, it's probably bad for HK. While I admire their passion and understand their motivation, maybe there are better ways to do it. I hope things stay peaceful and people just vent their anger and voice their displeasure. After a few days things slowly go back to normal. It's been pretty disruptive for business and people who are not involved. It's the National Day holiday tomorrow and looks like it will continue for a few days. Hope people stay calm and keep their cool.
The British didn't grant Hong Kong democracy either and only put in a lot of reforms when they knew they were leaving. On a practical daily basis there really is little difference between Hong Kong in 1996 and Hong Kong now.
That's your opinion and you entitled to it but a lot of people who are Hong Kong citizens feel differently. As an expat you have the freedom to leave and also vote in US elections. While US democracy certainly has a lot of flaws Americans have more of a say in their leadership than the people of Hong Kong do. While on a daily basis life in Hong Kong is relatively free and as I noted not much different than when it was under the last decade of British rule the people of Hong Kong have no guarantee or ability to ultimately decide their future. The PRC government has said that it has the right to overrule democratic decisions of the people of Hong Kong even though that was part of the treaty that returned the province.
In latest news the protesters are giving a Wednesday deadline for the HK Chief Executive to step down. He is rebuffing those demands and also reasserting that Beijing will not agree to pro-democracy demands. http://preview.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hong-kong-leader-says-beijing-wont-back-down/ar-BB6uYk3 Hong Kong leader says Beijing won't back down HONG KONG (AP) — Hong Kong's leader said Tuesday that China won't back down from its decision to limit voting reforms in the Asian financial hub, dashing hopes that the standoff between demonstrators and authorities could be resolved quickly through negotiations. As pro-democracy protests that have blocked Hong Kong's streets entered a fifth day, the unequivocal statement from Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying does not come as a surprise. Showing a willingness to talk would have made the Chinese leadership in Beijing appear weak, which could embolden dissidents and separatists on the mainland. Leung, a Beijing appointee who is deeply mistrusted by the people, said that mainland communist leaders would not reverse their August decision requiring a pro-Beijing panel to screen candidates in the territory's first direct elections, scheduled for 2017. "The central government will not rescind its decision," said Leung, adding that he wouldn't step down before then — rejecting one of the protesters' demands. There was no immediate response from Occupy Central, the main civil disobedience group, but said in a tweet that the broader pro-democracy movement had set a Wednesday deadline for Leung meet their demands, which include genuine democracy and his resignation. It said it would "announce new civil disobedience plans same day," without elaborating. Despite Leung's urgings that they disperse and go home, thousands of people — many of them university and high school students — gathered on a six-lane highway next to the local government headquarters. The protesters' chief demand is that they don't want Beijing to screen nominees for Hong Kong's leadership elections. They see the central government as reneging on a promise that the chief executive would eventually be chosen through "universal suffrage." "The people on the streets are here because we've made the decision ourselves and we will only leave when we have achieved something," said Chloe Cheung, a 20-year-old student at the Hong Kong Institute of Education. "We are waiting for the government to respond to our demands for democracy and a say in what the elections will be like." Student leaders planned to make their own announcement Tuesday about further plans and demands. Even larger crowds are expected to flood the streets Wednesday, China's National Day holiday. The government said it was canceling a fireworks display to mark the day. On Sunday, police shocked the city by firing tear gas at crowds, but protesters passed a peaceful night Monday singing as they blocked streets in several parts of Hong Kong. Crowds chanted calls for Leung to resign, and sang anthems calling for freedom. Police said they used 87 rounds of tear gas Sunday in what they called a necessary but restrained response to protesters pushing through cordons and barricades. They said 41 people were injured, including 12 police officers. "Police cordon lines were heavily charged by some violent protesters. So police had to use the minimum force in order to separate the distance at that moment between the protesters and also the police," said Cheung Tak-keung, the assistant police commissioner for operations. Officials announced that schools in some districts of Hong Kong would remain closed Tuesday because of safety concerns, while dozens of bus routes were canceled and some subway stops near protest areas were closed. The protests have been dubbed the "Umbrella Revolution" by some, because the crowds have used umbrellas to not only block the sun, but also to deflect police pepper spray. Political slogans calling for freedom have also been written on the umbrellas. Many younger Hong Kong residents raised in an era of plenty and with no experience of past political turmoil in mainland China have higher expectations. Under an agreement set in 1984, before most of them were born, Beijing promised to allow Hong Kong residents civil liberties — unseen in the rest of China — after it took control of the city in 1997. China's communist leaders take a hard line against any threat to their monopoly on power, including clamping down on dissidents and Muslim Uighur separatists in the country's far west, but it cannot crack down too harshly on the semi-autonomous territory where a freewheeling media ensures global visibility. Across the border, Chinese state media have provided scant coverage of the protests beyond noting that an illegal gathering spun out of control and was being curtailed by police.
won't comment on voting in US, but as far as HK goes, you are right for some people, they are not happy. If it's a majority, then it would be different. As I see it, it's not a majority. Older and relatively well off people seem to be cool to the movement. My manager flat out said that they are being manipulated. People who are happy with their lives don't really care too much about it. I think the protest has heavy element of discrimination against mainlanders as well as economic well being, among many other things. As I said, it's is way more than just calling for democracy. It's accumulation of loads of things and some which I don't even know or understand. US consulate already stated that they are not taking side as far as I know hearing from others yesterday.
I don't know the polling data so I don't know whether it is a majority or not. That said I'm not surprised this is mostly the young and poor who are behind this. Hong Kong history has long been stratified between classes particularly between rich affluent Chinese and British versus poorer Chinese. Most of the well to do Chinese in general don't want to rock the boat and are fine with outside control, whether from London or Beijing, while many others want more say in their governance. This isn't a new thing and there were protests particularly by poor Hong Kong against the British and have the pro-democracy movement has been active in Hong Kong since it's return when the PRC didn't live up to agreements to allow Hong Kong to choose its own leaders. As far as resentment of mainlanders there is some of that. One fear that Hong Kong has always had is that it will be overwhelmed by the mainland Chinese. Further there is some feeling that mainlanders are backwards yokels while mainlanders often feel that Hong Kong people are lazy, corrupt or both. Also since Hong Kong has returned there has been some feeling that PRC polices aren't always beneficial to Hong Kong and that they favor Shanghai, Shenzhen and other places in China proper.
so yeah, that's my point. this is not just about democracy. actually, the whole discrimination thing against mainlanders is way over the top. it's actually a lot worse these days than you think. it's so out in the open and without restraint and everyone is doing it. it's the one thing that shocked me after I arrived here. you don't see this kind of open discrimination in the states. but anyways, that's just one element of it.
I support the protesters. They were given promises by the PRC when Hong Kong was returned by the British, and those promises are being broken. Hong Kong was supposed to be a kind of city-state, both part of and apart from China. My guess would be that a loose model of Singapore was the hope of many of the people of Hong Kong. The treaty was the backbone of the supposed quasi-independence of Hong Kong, and now China is saying, "Whoops! We've changed our minds. Tough luck, chumps." It doesn't surprise me at all that the new policies of the PRC are not being welcomed there.
I can see how a part of it is about New Money and the dilution of Cantonese culture with Mandarin on several different fronts.
