Rice should be serving 8 games. McDonald also committed domestic abuse. Indefinent suspension? Such a pr move. Follow your own rules Goodell.
So what did the NFL think happened in the elevator? Any jury with an ounce of a brain would think Goodell is a ****ing moron. If I murdered someone in an elevator but there was no video evidence....and then there is a video of it...does that make me more guilty? Nope. Murder is murder, just like domestic abuse is domestic abuse.
And he's also directly implicating that Rice was justified in his actions because theorectically a man can be assaulted by a woman (in the abstract sense I suppose all things are possible). And because Janay lunged at Rice (AFTER he slapped her in the face - he forgets to point that out), Rice was justified because in his view, HE was under "attack". His entire argument is one big rationalization that domestic violence is permissible with the strong implication that Janay is responsible for what happened by her actions. It doesn't matter if he, personally, doesn't like what happened because his "arguments" justify and are in support of Rice's actions.
1) So you are saying that a man can NEVER be assaulted by a woman? smdh 2) In my watching of the video, he hit her once, the punch that caused the knock out ultimately. What you are calling a slap the first time I saw as him trying to block her trying to hit him again (she hit him before going into the elevator as well) and after she had spit on him already. 3) I clearly stated several times my views about what he did and what I would prefer to do in the same situation. None of that changes the theoretical positions and rights of anyone to protect themselves under all circumstances. You people are acting as if he beat this woman down and hit her over and over repeatedly. That is just not what happened in the video. Giving women a clear path to spit or hit men and get protection from the law and public opinion to be protected from ever getting hit back, is the wrong path for society to go IMHO.
I have given my two cents on that topic already. I said her response is a typical enabling response. That she chose to marry him and is standing by him is not surprising. I saw a video where they say they met in high school. She knows exactly who he is and is blinded by her strong codependent feelings for him that she believes is what 'love' is and should feel like. I think there is always hope for change, human beings have capacity to change if they want it enough (addictions, life habits, etc) there is always hope and my wish especially for her is that she enter therapy and open her eyes before its too late. I do not believe this was a one time incident and I do not believe he can change that without some form of therapy.
Goodell and the rest of the NFL are in full fledged spin mode because the "shield" is under attack because of their own actions. TMZ points out that someone from the NFL saw that video before Rice was given his two game suspension. I beleive this is why he suddenly changed direction and announced his "new" policy on domestic violence. Now that all hell has broken loose, he & they are falling back on the old plausible deniability game plan: We never saw that video, we couldn't get a copy of that video - we asked for the video but didn't get it, we knew there was another video but made our decision anyway so it's not really our fault. And that's their story and they are sticking to it.
I guess I'm somewhere in the middle of all this, simply because I don't think there is enough information. I'm going to give the big IF here. IF this was a one time thing. They were a couple in the middle of a verbal heated argument/fight that happens in nearly every relationship. Tensions are running high. They both probably have alcohol in their system. The women is also being aggressive, and by the limited video may have been the first one to introduce a physical aspect to the fight, however meek it may be. IF all of this added up to a perfect storm where this unfortunate event happened in the heat of the moment, then I do feel this has been blown out of proportion. I have to admit I have just much reason to believe the above is true as I do the narrative that Ray Rice is a serial domestic abuser of his high school sweetheart.
I think I can help you out '86, being in the same camp as you despite us both acknowledging that what he did was wrong (should have never entered the elevator with someone already getting physically aggressive with him in the first place), hit her harder than necessary, and not what either one of us would do or have ever done (i have never like you probably never hit a woman), but we still think it represents (the most extreme example possible of) what should still be legally justified. If a capable adult crosses the threshold of physically attacking you, in our book you get to hit them, and the measure of that act of self defense, especially if it's one punch, the strenght of that punch doesn't have to be exactly proportional to the size of the person who is attacking you man or woman, or else go to jail. Here is where you're going wrong- you just have to accept (or at least keep to yourself objections to the fact) that it is a social norm not subject to the same logical scrutiny, just an unwavering rule in our society that no matter what, you're not allowed to defend yourself against a woman spitting, hitting, charging you or anything like you could defend yourself against a man similarly. Not unless she is a pro fighter, bigger than you, has a lethal weapon etc. It can't just be a chance that she could gouge an eye, or only hurt you a little bit- if not a lethal threat, you either have to retreat, or if not possible let her finish her attack (or handle it perfectly with kid gloves not leaving a mark on her), and allow her only repercussions to be from the legal system. yes, we all concede that if any of us attacked shaq, and he dropped us, despite the size/strength disparity being even greater than typical man vs. women, it would be different. Doesn't matter, an act of self defense just gets umbrella'd in under violence against women, and any argument to the contrary like yours will only be met with emotion, attacks, assumptions about you hitting women etc. (^all just for 86's sanity only, I've already been through this & get the message) All i ask is this- if we are going to have this double standard, if defending yourself against an attacking woman can never be equally as legal as doing so against a man (even regardless of similar size/strength disparities), then let there be an equal increase in criminal punishment for women attacking men. Like attacking any other defenseless subset, if men are not allowed to defend themselves, women should know that they stand to lose more if they attack a man. At least have some motivation to not attack people that aren't allowed to hit back, because as it is now they know they can pretty much do what they want and in all likeliness the winner of the fight that they started will be the one going to jail. make it so they attack you, you do NOTHING to defend yourself, take what damage they can do, then they do time. After a few of those examples set, maybe they'll lose the idea that they have a free pass.
As I pointed out this arugument is hypothetical and not relevant to this situation. She did spit on him by the door, I agree. He clearly slaps her and that's when she lunges at him (for slapping her). He punches her, she flies into the railing, hits her head and that's when she gets knocked out. What's most telling is his reaction AFTER she hits her head and is lying there unconscious. It was far too casual and I remain firmly to convinced that this was not the first time he'd hit her. There was never any "threat" to Rice that required him being forced to defend himself in such a manner. If a 200+ lb PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL player cannot deal with an angry 100 lb woman without resorting to this level of violence, he simply doesn't deserve to play in the NFL. Even if you would do as you say, you are still clearly justifying what he did which in my book, tells me that you support his actions. I would love to see your reaction if that had been your mother or sister or cousin or whatever. He DID beat her down! It only took one blow - the railing did the rest. I was raised to rever and respect women so I would never "hit" them back. Now, my sister's first husband did exactly what you said and I and my cousins made damn sure that he'd NEVER hit my sister again. Unlike yourself, I prefer not to deal in hypotheticals.
Yes sir... That's not domestic violence _ that's a domestic fight. Calling that situation domestic violence is a slap in the face to women who have to deal with domestic violence (no pun intended)... What you are saying is probably why the legal system only gave Ray Rice a slap on the wrist because if they were going to give a stiffer punishment they would have to charge his wife with something as well. Same situation with Jay-Z if he would have retaliated in the elevator against his sister-in-law... What could a judge really charged him with...???
Self-defense laws are written with a reasonable person standard in determining what is the appropriate response to any threat. In general women are weaker than men so in general so in most cases if a man were to fight a woman the burden is on the man to show that the level of threat from the woman was commensurate to their response. In the case of Ray Rice while he has a good argument that his fiance initiated the attack given that he is an NFL running back most reasonable people would consider his response appropriate. Now granted that doesn't mean there isn't a possibility that her attack could've done sufficient harm to him, let's say she had a very infectious disease in her saliva or she happens to just slap where he had a previous injury and aggravates it, but those are very unlikely. As far as this being a double standard yes it is but that is due to that biologically men are stronger than women. That said if Ronda Rousey though was slapped by a 5'-1" 100 lb man and she knocked him unconscious or broke his arm I doubt that Rousey's actions would be considered purely self-defense. In the same way if that same 100 lb man slapped Ray Rice and he knocked him unconscious Rice would still likely face assault charges. This is a very important issue that we face in martial arts regarding self-defense. For example if say a 5'-7" 150 lb 3rd degree black belt was pushed in a bar by a 6'-2" 200 lb guy who had no training if the black belt reacted by knocking the 200 lb guy unconscious or breaking his arms by virtue that the black belt is more skilled he is going to be more liable especially since the initial assault wasn't one that caused much physical harm. Under some laws the black belt could be even charged with assault with a deadly weapon. The bottom line though is that men can defend themselves against women but like any other self-defense situation it has to be shown that the actions were appropriate to the situation. If a woman comes after a man with a knife and the man knocks her out or worse I doubt any jury wouldn't consider that valid self-defense. That is a far different scenario than what happened between Ray Rice and his fiance.
National Organization for Women calling for Goddell's resignation.. wonder if we will see other organizations do the same.
The NFL's biggest hope is that this story will fade away and that these actions will fizzle out. But they have two more pending cases - Greg Hardy at Carolina & Ray McDonald (with a pregnant fiance) at SF that threaten to keep this issue in the headlines. McDonald's case happened after the so-called new league policy on domestic violence (which I believe was hastily put together because the NFL saw the TMZ film). The Hardy incident is the most troubling one because he nearly choked his GF to death. Interestingly, Hardy is using likestohypeguy & FANfrom86toNow's justification of "she attacked me" even though he was found guilty by a judge and given a 60 day suspended sentence + 18 months probation (wow!). More information can be found here: http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2014/09/09/3565086/here-are-the-two-other-domestic-violence-cases-facing-nfl-players-right-now/
Jay-Z's sister-in-law should have been charged with assault as well but she wasn't. The tape was out there for everyone to see. The justice system had the perfect opportunity to make an example of her but they didn't (at least I think they didn't) which allows some women to believe they can hit on some men with no consequences for their actions. And Ray Rice showed that not all men will respond to a situation like that the way Jay-Z did.
Wow is right. Some lawyer trying to make a name for himself/herself should rally the troops for longer sentence time/harsher sentences in that state. I'm sure it will happen too.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>A law enforcement official told the AP he sent a video of Ray Rice punching his then-fiancee to an NFL executive three months ago.</p>— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/509807167617400832">September 10, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
If true, Goodell's goose is cooked and good riddance too, pseudo tough guy wielding complete control over the players but in reality he's a cowering pansy when he doesn't hold all the cards.
This just hit the AP newswire: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-newsbreak-source-says-rice-video-sent-nfl-0 ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. (AP) — A law enforcement official says he sent a video of Ray Rice punching his then-fiancee to an NFL executive five months ago, while league executives have insisted they didn't see the violent images until this week. The person played The Associated Press a 12-second voicemail from an NFL office number on April 9 confirming the video arrived. A female voice expresses thanks and says: "You're right. It's terrible." The law enforcement official, speaking to the AP on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation, says he had no further communication with any NFL employee and can't confirm anyone watched the video. The person said they were unauthorized to release the video but shared it unsolicited, because they wanted the NFL to have it before deciding on Rice's punishment. The NFL has repeatedly said it asked for but could not obtain the video of Rice hitting Janay Palmer — who is now his wife — at an Atlantic City casino in February. The league says it has no record of the video, and no one in the league office had seen it until Monday. When asked about the voicemail Wednesday, NFL officials repeated their assertion that no league official had seen the video before Monday. The person said he sent a DVD copy of the security camera video to an NFL office and included his contact information. He asked the AP not to release the name of the NFL executive, for fear that the information would identify the law enforcement official as the source. NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell initially suspended Rice for two games following the February incident, but the Ravens released Rice on Monday and the NFL suspended him indefinitely after the website TMZ released the video. Goodell told CBS on Tuesday that "no one in the NFL, to my knowledge" had seen a new video of what happened on the elevator until it was posted online. "We assumed that there was a video. We asked for video. But we were never granted that opportunity," Goodell said. In a memo to the NFL's 32 teams on Wednesday, Goodell said that the league asked law enforcement for the video, but not the casino. "In the context of a criminal investigation, information obtained outside of law enforcement that has not been tested by prosecutors or by the court system is not necessarily a reliable basis for imposing league discipline," he wrote. The video, shown to the AP on Monday, is slightly longer than the TMZ version, and includes some audio. Rice and Janay Palmer — now Janay Rice — can be heard shouting obscenities at each other, and she appears to spit at Rice right before he throws a brutal punch. After she collapses, he drags her out of the elevator and is met by some hotel staff. One of them can be heard saying, "She's drunk, right?" And then, "No cops." Rice had been charged with felony aggravated assault in the case, but in May he was accepted into a pretrial intervention program that allowed him to avoid jail time and could lead to the charge being purged from his record. A prominent New Jersey lawmaker called Tuesday for that decision to be reviewed. Hours after portions of the video were made public by TMZ, Goodell suspended Rice indefinitely and Baltimore terminated his contract. He had originally been suspended for two games, and team officials had praised him for his apologies and actions after his arrest for aggravated assault. Goodell and team officials said they were taking more severe action because of the violence in the video.
