The funny thing is, I don't think even Luhnow himself would attack Cosart the way some have here... I honesty believe this trade was almost entirely about Moran, and Cosart was the one piece that would make it work (which goes back to people being frustrated that we're trading bona-fied MLB talent for prospects, at this stage in the rebuild). If both continue to do well (and Moran eventually makes the big league club), I'm still valuing the starting pitcher.
Luhnow said, after the trade, he thought Cosart would win 15 games many times in his career. Moran better be amazing if that's the case.
I actually think his "struggles" this year have been overblown. He was bad in July, and had one bad start at the beginning of the season against Oakland... the rest of the stuff in between featured an extended stretch of quality pitching that matches (or exceeds) what any other Astro starting pitcher has been able to do consecutively this year. Again, Luhnow probably wanted Moran from the second the contact with the Marlins started... and this was the price he had to pay.
Yeah, I quoted that earlier... but I also feel that he sometimes says things as just "lip service". However, if he honestly believes that, his super-computer must not value things like starting pitchers in their 20's who can put up multiple double-digit win seasons (and it must be saying Moran is an undervalued Bagwellian 3B). Additionally, Cosart likely never cracks Luhnow's algorithm of being a pitcher that he would either draft or would trade for (as Wade did)... that has to play a role in things as well.
Luhnow doesn't think Cosart will be very good. Not that he expects him to suck, but he thinks Cosart will most likely just be a solid pitcher. The fact that he used wins, which no stat person cares about, tells you it was just courtesy praise. I liked the trade, still do. Time will tell.
That pisses me off honestly: "He's a multiple 15 game season winner waiting to happen... but he's not my kinda 15 game season winner, and since those guys grow on trees, i'm trading him for a AA three-bagger who has no power." Oh well...
Just out of curiosity, has there ever been a multiple 15 game winner that was not a very good pitcher?
Tanks Jeff! "Too good to pass up." Ha! The opportunity to fire Bo Porter was too good to pass up! The opportunity to trade George Springer for these future prospects & pick was too good to pass up! The opportunity to trade Jose Altuve was too good to pass up! Tanks Jeff! :grin:
If a guy wins 15 times in a season for many seasons, he's good enough for me. I may not be a mathematician or an astronaut, but I feel pretty confident of that analysis.
You seriously believe Luhnow thinks highly of Cosart? He just threw out a stat to dole out false praise.
I think one thing that is big in Luhnow's "super computer" is the fact that offense is down huge since the steroid testing. Pitching is as easy to find as it has been in 25 years as a result. Offense is currently what's hard to find. So he's inclined to trade a #3-#4 type starter, that he feels with his system depth he can replace relatively easily, for the chance to have two position players that he feels have high upside.
I don't know what he believes or doesn't believe. I honestly don't care much about what he believes. You suggested that he used wins because wins are mere courtesy praise and not valued by stats guys. I'm just saying that if you think a guy is going to win 15 games repeatedly in his career, you're saying he's a good pitcher, regardless of what Super Computer and Mr. Chips thinks about it.
People get used to this. Because as the blue chip prospects come to the ML club, young guys will need ro be traded. Cosat being traded opened up a spot for Folty. Now we have Tropeano, Appel, and a few others almost ready to come up. And Folty should vie for a spot in the rotation this Spring. Hence more guys will need to be moved. The return for Cosart was mind blowing. this type of trade will ensure the minir league system stays relatively elite. Hope Lunhow keeps it up.
Cosart's trade wasn't necessary to open up a spot for Folty. Send Peacock to Siberia, and there's your spot for Folty...who by the way, has been up with the team since Cosart was traded and hasn't made a start yet anyway. I hope Luhnow actually builds an effing team in the city I live in...in the ballpark I buy seats. I'm so tired of this city idolizing and worshipping general managers who haven't won dick yet. So far they've proven great at making trades and building minor league winners. They're praised for philosophy, but have little to show for it. And then there's Rick Smith who is probably the smartest of them all, as he's figured out a way to be a GM that isn't accountable for anything at all. What a job!
At one point Cosart was one of our blue chip prospects though. I wouldn't say that was an excuse for trading him. (note: I don't mind that we traded him. I like the return we got and Cosart was just a confusing pitcher with his peripherals and performance).
Cosart pitching with ‘chip on the shoulder’ since Astros dealt him to Marlins Miami Marlins: Jarred Cosart aims to make Astros regret deal
if it was jeff who invested his time and not ed wade, believe you me this deal never gets done or at least goes another 2 seasons before it gets done. =/ The whole point of having a farm system is for the CHANCE to even come across a player like cosart because most of the time prospects don't succeed. Hopefully marisnick becomes our best center fielder we've ever had.
Not exactly what he said. He said over the last three years... Which is hard to argue with, as they have been dead last the last three years.
