Of course I'm looking at ERA... and yes, I'm looking at his good month "here and there" (June/August), because when he's really only been a MLB pitcher for 7 or so months, most of your good months ARE going to be "here and there". Agreed that you have to give up value to get something of value... but I can easily see Cosart being more valuable as a young starting pitcher going forward.
I know this is a quasi-impossible question to answer, given hindsight and whatnot, but if they had made this exact same trade except exchange Folty for Cosart...what would yall have said? Folty: better prospect Cosart: success in the bigs
That deal gets done every day and twice on Sunday from the Astros perspective. All signs indicate that Folty isn't ready to be a ML starting pitcher, which is what the Marlins specifically wanted. Particularly, Strom's comments were telling. Folty might have a slightly higher upside but he has huge strides to make in order to be a functional bullpen piece much less starter (much less solid TOR starter). The Marlins never would have done that deal anyway, they have plenty of untested/struggling pitching prospects and in fact let go of a very legitimate one for peanuts (Jacob Turner). They wanted an established starter.
That's why i posed the question, the talent gap is large b/t the two, but Cosart had at least shown something (not sure how you could call him "established" though). Trades & tradeoffs.
Actually the talent gap isn't real large. Both of their upsides is #2/3 starter. Both have projectable plus fastballs, significantly weaker secondaries, poor control. The difference between Folty's flat 100mph fastball and Cosart's straight 98mph 4-seamer ain't much. Cosart is established in the sense that you have a fairly good idea of what kind of outing he's likely and capable of throwing. He certainly has room to grow but you know he can go out today and throw 5-6 ip with 3-4 k and 2-3 bb's.
Its funny how Cosart has gone from "he's still a prospect" to "established starter" in the same thread. A truly polarizing figure indeed... has the experts scratching their heads.
I don't know if Folty is ultimately going to be a starter... I don't think he can go more than 5 innings consistently with poor secondary stuff and a fastball that MLB hitters will eventually be able to time. That being said, his control also needs work if he is to become an elite closer... then again, you could throw 100mph, find a lot of the plate, and still get some outs. But it just goes to show you why its tough to give up on any young pitcher with stuff... I wouldn't suggest trading either of them.
Well considering he's been a starter for a year and still has room to develop....I see no conflict here.
I've said all along this was essentially a prospect for prospects trade, with Cosart simply being farther along. While I have seen enough of him to say I am confident he is an ML starter, I wouldn't call him established. Prior to the trade Cosart had a 4.02 FIP and a 1.47 K/BB ratio. While not terrible numbers, you certainly don't give up what the Marlins did for that guy. They did it for the guy they hope he becomes.
This was posted on twitter with the hashtag TradeDeadlineSteal. Hilarious how some fans of each team think they got a steal. Cosart in exclusive company with strike-zone pounding win http://touch.sun-sentinel.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-81189886/ Jarred Cosart didn't simply pound the strike zone during Monday night's late start against the Angels. He beat it into submission. In topping the Angels, Cosart became just the third pitcher in club history to throw 80 or more strikes while totaling 107 pitches or fewer in a game. The Angels had faced Cosart twice this season while he was still with the Astros. They saw a different guy. "Never did he pound the zone like he did" Monday, Angels' manager Mike Scioscia said. "He was in the zone early and often. Started off with a lot of fastballs that we missed; as the game went on, brought in curve and change-up. We didn't get too many good looks at him." Kevin Brown on May 20, 1997, against the Mets (106 pitches, 80 strikes) and Josh Beckett on July 21, 2003, against the Expos (107-81) are the only other Marlins starters to throw 80 or more strikes in fewer than 108 pitches. Only six others, including Garrett Richards — who was scheduled to oppose Cosart on Monday before injuring his knee last week — have done it this season. Phil Hughes can boast two such outings, and Jacob deGrom, Chris Sale and Colby Lewis each have done it once. Monday marked the 21st time in Cosart's young career he's thrown 100 or more pitches. The most strikes he'd thrown in any of those games before Monday was 75 (108 pitches) in a June 4 outing against the Angels for the Astros. Cosart's first-pitch strike percentage is up to 58.7 percent from 52.4 percent in 2013 as a rookie. He's also done a better job filling up the zone, going from 57 percent strikes (1,024 pitches) to 62.4 percent (2,374 pitches) this season. "First couple of innings, you could just see it in his face," manager Mike Redmond said. "His tempo, he was focused. He commanded his pitches and he was ahead of every single guy. It was impressive and fun to watch. You could tell he was on a mission." Cosart's first 13 offerings were fastballs ranging between 94 and 96 mph. The Angels had no answer once Cosart started mixing in his curve. He kept getting ahead, throwing first-pitch strikes to 26 of 31 batters faced. The only Angels hitter who saw a 2-0 pitch from Cosart was catcher Chris Ianetta, with two out in the sixth. The lone walk Cosart issued was to Josh Hamilton, the last batter he faced. "The first two times I had a good couple of innings and tried to get cute and walked a couple of guys," Cosart said of his previous outings against the Angels. "With a lineup like that, top to bottom it's one of the best lineups in the game. … From the beginning I wanted to attack the strike zone, get strike one and go from there. I was able to do that and got great defensive play behind me and they swung the bats. It's a good recipe for success." Cosart has made three straight quality starts and allowed two earned runs over his last 20 2/3 innings. Since the Marlins acquired him, Cosart is 2-1 with a 2.08 ERA and 12 strikeouts in 26 innings. "Just having confidence in your ability no matter who you have," Cosart said. "That's kind of what I'm riding right now. Hopefully it will continue going forward because I'd love just as much as any of these guys in here to pitch in the playoffs and have the opportunity to hopefully get to World Series. I'm excited to do my part to help us get there."
Until the players the Marlins gave up do something of marked prolonged significance in the big leagues... they're clearly going to be overjoyed with the trade, provided Cosart continues to throw quality starts and shuts down quality opponents.
If cosart throws strikes like he did last outing there is no reason why he won't be just as successful as he was in that game . With a fastball like his which is exceptionally prone to generating grounders and the ability to mix in a similar looking and speed cutter , he can be tough to hit when he throws strikes . In my previous post I went into more depth but the fact of the matter remains as of right now the marlins are "winning" the trade .
For all those strikes he only recorded 4 strikeout's. There's gonna be days when those strikes become hits if he doesn't develop an out pitch.
And there will be days where those strikes miss a bat with 2 strikes. Walks are the killer. His stuff is good enough to live in the strike zone.
7 ho-hum innings again tonight for Cosart 0 runs, 7 hits, 1 bb, 5 K this guy is going to fall apart any month now. sure am glad we got some AA talent for him, let's go CC
Don't trust the reality of it, Beard. The numbers suggest he shouldn't be pitching well, so he probably really isn't. Go Corpus Christi!!
seriously? he was the first prospect in a very long time that i was actually excited about. the first name that came up from the Ed Wade trades. I don't like trading 24 year old pitchers because they struggled a bit...i'm gonna go ahead and assume that most of the young guys are going to struggle a bit.
