No, I don't agree with the concept of religious states whether they're Jewish or Islamic or Christian or anything else. You Zionists stole a bunch of land and then changed the narrative to we have a right to have stolen all that land and we have a right to keep it and if you fight us about it you're anti-semitic and terrorist supporters. Your behavior is repugnant and disgusting, no more or less so than the people you fight. Every step of the way you've tried to destroy the lives of the people whose land you've stolen. You think Muslims in Israel practice their religion more freely than they do in the United States? Highly unlikely.
Yes ISrael should stop firing missiles. They have troops on the ground. Send them in to wipe out Hamas missiles or Hamas personnel. Do it with troops instead of missiles where Israel has much more control in whether or not civilians get killed. If Israel was genuinely concerned about Palestinian civilians they would use that tactic much more than bombing schools and hospitals. If the Israelis know that's where the missiles are stored or being fired from, go get them. Don't drop bombs on them which will blow up the whole neighborhood. That way Israel still is defending itself, but they aren't killing as many Palestinian civilians.
Let me add if the Palestinians have had enough struggle and are ready to accept a return to the 1967 borders with a fully independent state that is their right to do so. Hard to see the 600,000 and steadily growing Jewish towns being removed. Of course those Palestinians still subjected to discrimination within the Israel proper of the pre 1967 borders will have to eventually win their full civil rights. I would certainly agree with any Palestinians who object to Jews from all over the world being considered citizens of Israel while the 80% of the people whose parents and grandparents lived for thousands of years just on the other side of the Gazan fence do not have a similar right. The right of return for those displaced to Gaza or parts of the West Bank is certainly superior to an alleged right of return from two thousand years ago. I really think a single state with perhaps a lose confederation with two official languages maybe like Canada or I guess Belgium would be the ideal for all concerned. Perhaps the two parts of the confederation could privilege one language or religion, but only to the extent that folks from the other group would feel comfortable if they choose to live in the other part of the confederation. Zionism sadly was an inherently 19th century colonialist if not racial/ethnic mistake and needs to be phased out.
Don't be silly. It's hard to muster even a sarcastic "nice try". It is sort of like saying someone who objected to slavery or Jim Crowe in the US was simply against the US existing and was against peace. As far as sincerity like most of the world and an ever growing number of American and other Jews I am not a Zionist. This doesn't mean I and they are not sincere about peace and frankly we consider the repudiation of Zionism to be a route to peace.
No it goes back to the 1967 borders. Israel can be a theocracy if they like, can do anything they want within their boundaries. Same with Palestine. If they want a nut job Hamas based ruling class that is fine. The 600,000 Jewish settlers can move back to Israel as they stole the land in most cases. If Palestinians want to ban Jews, so be it... Likewise, if Israel decides to kick out Muslims, so be it... Build a huge barrier between the two nations and that is that. If insurgents in Palestine decide to shoot missiles, then Palestine takes care of it of risk reprisal from Israel. If some religious zealot moron from Israel decides he wants to "colonize" Palestine, his head ends up on a pike as an infidel.
Gaza crisis: Rafah school strike 'criminal' - UN chief http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28632287 An attack that killed 10 people at a UN-run Gaza school was a "moral outrage and a criminal act", UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has said. It constituted a "gross violation of international law", Mr Ban said. State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the US was appalled by the "disgraceful" shelling. The blast hit the entrance of the school, which is sheltering thousands displaced by the conflict. Israel denies firing into the school. The Israeli military said it had targeted three militants from the Islamic Jihad group on a motorbike near the school, though the group did not report any of it members killed or injured. Government spokesman Mark Regev said that if militants were turning the vicinities of schools into war zones they should be held accountable. Gaza health officials say 30 people have died on Sunday, while militants continue to fire rockets into Israel
The thing is, that means sacrificing Israeli troops, as there are sure to be casualties with a ground assault. Sure, from a utilitarian perspective, a handful of injured or dead soldiers is probably preferable to the thousands of civilians dying, but I don't think that's a view that many Israelis would take.
I doubt your sincerity when you're always defending Islamic regimes on here. And a minority Jewish state in the middle east: what could possibly go wrong?
I think glynch is trying way too hard. Without at least a modicum of realism, we'll never see a peace between Israel and the Palestinians. It's like standing in the middle of a field in the country and staring at the Moon, dreaming of living to see mankind walk on its surface, and it is 1894. Want to insure we never see peace in the region, glynch? Seriously think that your scenario is the road to a lasting peace? I love idealism. I'm idealistic myself. The difference between us is that without viewing the possibililties for peace through a prism of what's possible, you replace what's possible with what amounts to an impossibility. In my opinion, at any rate.
You are correct. It would risk more soldiers lives in the short term. So as others have said Israel has made the decision to value civilian lives less than they could. They aren't taking every step available to avoid killing civilians. Israel has made the choice to kill Palestinian civilians rather than risk some soldiers lives. On one hand, I understand it. On the other it gives validity to the criticism of Israel's actions.
Israel has the power. It has to be the one to lead towards peace if that is what it wants. Everyone thinks that it's up to the Palestinians to change their tactics and be peaceful if they are to get a separate state. But there is no viable way to make a state out of Gaza and what remains of the West Bank, unless the future Palestinian state will be one that has a lot of Jewish settlers living in them. There will never be a Palestine. That's the reality. Israel is never going to give back land. So there is no 2 state solution. And since Israel can't commit genocide, ultimately the Palestinians will have to become citizens of Israel and be given the right to vote. That's why Israel is crazy for not trying to make peace now. For continuing to fan the flames. Because if they can't get the Palestinians to agree to their own state, than at some point, they have to let the Palestinians become Israeli. Sadly, Israel does not understand this.
I'm going to paste from a post I made earlier. A lot of liberals and Arabs talk about demographics being the end of Israel if there isn't a Palestinian state while bringing up South Africa as the example. I think that's bunk. There was a 9:1 black to white ratio in south africa we will never get anywhere near that with Israel. Israel is already sort of a pariah state but it won't become one in the way that matters (economic). The United States will never abandon Israel and I'm sure other countries care more about getting access to israeli technology and soon to be massive gas reserves than they do about the Palestinians. Israel gets to eat its cake and have it to. The end.
The answer has to be a "two state solution," in my opinion, and one based on the pre-1967 War boundaries. I think there is far too much blood shed by both sides to allow "one state for both." Perhaps after a generation or two or three, we'll see a shift towards a more true change in attitudes among the different people of the region towards Israel, and vice versa, but it will take a very, very long time. Back in 1982, during an extended visit to the Netherlands to see my significant other's relatives (among other things), we were able to have a long talk with an older cousin who was the head of a very large private school just outside of a medieval town that still had some of the ancient walls standing. He was a young man during WWII and attempted to escape to Switzerland during the German occupation of his country. The gentleman made it to the Swiss border before being caught. With typical German efficiency, he was sent back to the Netherlands and placed in a concentration camp until the end of the war. He told us this story while showing us the site of the camp, which was in a forest of young trees, without an obvious sign along the road where we parked to tell someone what had happened there. We would never have known it existed without her cousin showing it to us. There was still one guard tower remaining, a sentinel watching over a bit of history this man couldn't forget. Forced to help "clean up" after witnessing Jews and Gypsies shot dead against an earthen embankment for no more reason than that they were Jews and Gypsies, as he stood in front of the long mound of earth with us, he said that he still had deep bitterness towards Germany and Germans for what had happened to his country and what had happened to him. That when he saw young Dutch people hanging out with young Germans, laughing and having a good time, that he had to turn away. He wasn't ready to forgive emotionally, even if intellectually he knew that the youth of both countries had nothing to do with what had happened. This was nearly 40 years after the end of the war, and this was a highly educated, very intelligent Dutchman. I told that story (I've told it here before, but maybe it's been a while) to illustrate the difficulty in having a real peace when so much bitterness exists due to so much bloodshed and injustice. Peace will be steps taken one at a time. To hope for some grand settlement to wash everything away from both sides is to hope for too much.
I honestly think only a one state solution will work and the reason I say that is because let's say they go with the two state '67 borders plan, how long before the Palestinians attack causing another war? Even the most optimistic probably wouldn't suggest that they'd make it more than 5 or 10 years before their inner-terrorist would rear it's ugly head then we'd be right back to where we are now only with tens of thousands more dead. I think it's pretty clear the Palestinians can't handle the responsibility of being a legitimate state, at least not at this point so give the West Bank to Jordan and have either Israel take the Gaza strip or give it to Egypt and work a deal to where the Palestinians can leave and disperse them around the middle east and potentially even around the globe (so that no one nation would have to take in too many). Voila! No more trouble in the region (or at minimum a whole lot less) and we could probably even get Israel to partially fund the whole thing.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=814c27715a77" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> How can peace be had when the IDF thinks it's ok to joke about bombing Gaza? Horrible human beings who need to be tried for war crimes. These zionists are the real nazis of today.
