The word "innocent" is thrown around far too loosely and I'm not necessarily calling for them to be killed. Yes, if they are not happy, they should leave. The small bit of land that is actually theirs is constantly plagued with war because their people are ridiculously stubborn with a touch (or more) of stupidity and it puts their children in danger. Hell we've heard complaints that the land they have isn't "sustainable", so why would they want to stay there? I don't really have a side in this fight, but what turns me against the Palestinians (among other things) is that a majority of their problems are of their own doing. Sure they didn't like what happened in 48, but rather than doing what was best for their people, they fought and lost, then they fought and lost again, then they fought and lost again over and over again. Each time the only result was more dead Palestinians. Had they focused that energy into something positive rather than just trying to make war over and over again, their people would be a lot better off for it. Even worse, they still haven't learned their lesson yet so they still continue to get Palestinians killed with their actions. You talk about MLK and Gandhi, but their cause was just, that's not the case in this situation. The cause of the Palestinian people is to conquer lands that aren't theirs simply because they think it should be theirs. If they had the power to do it, that would be one thing, but they don't....and honestly, they probably won't ever have that power so all they are doing is hurting their people for a cause that is not just.
It's a big world out there and people have migrated to different lands since there was people. The claim is that the Gaza Strip is tiny and unsustainable, so you'd think they'd leave, or at least a sizable portion of them would. Also before I get the "it's not that easy" comment again, I know it's not that easy. Nothing is easy when you are a refugee, but staying in a war zone with a people who care more about waging war against their neighbors than they do about their people isn't exactly an easy situation either.
Huh? I have no idea what you're talking about. All I'm saying is that the history of the founding of Israel there were those who were terrorists and committed terrorist acts.
I would said the way the current Israel leaders want to punish and beat the heck out of you to submission at any cost could easily be seen as an act of terror. Certainly, the people of Palestine is in terror, especially the kids there. I'm also sure that some of those kids will grow up to be limited to knowing only one way out of their terror... be the one doing the terror acts.
Deji pointed this out earlier but Israel controls their movements. So it's not as simple as just up and leaving whenever they feel like it. Anyway this type of thinking is as unrealistic as those who says that Jewish Israelis can just move to the US, Western Europe or Australia. Neither people are going to leave en masse or should be expected to too.
The Zionist enterprise is untenable. That has always been clear from a moral standpoint. Today it is most obvious politically, demographically, and culturally. What Israeli officials call 'delegitimization' is only the product of Israeli aggression and greed. They cannot redirect attention away from the occupation anymore, they can't put make-up on their settler colonialism and distract the world with 'upstarts', 'innovation', and 'sex tourism' and being the so called 'only democracy in the Middle East'. This enterprise has been exposed, and Israel has itself to blame for that.
Yes. There is certainly an element of that. The same though could be said for Israeli children living under the constant threat of rocket attacks. The people are both sides are suffering. The Palestinians are suffering much more because the power differential is large but that still doesn't mean that there is no suffering on the Israel side. As I said I don't see either side as good or bad. They are grey and both have blood on their hands.
If Israel controls their movements, how do they keep getting weapons? As to leaving en masse, if the Gaza Strip is unsustainable, why wouldn't they leave in large numbers?
That's why most in the ISM today advocate for one state with one vote for every person, equal civil and economic rights for every citizen. In other words, a country for all its citizens. Sure, many Israelis would prefer not to live next to Palestinians today, but a majority of them would have no problem with it at all. Those who did could leave, but many more Jews would stay to participate in a future state based on religious equality and a common national identity. Today, Israel does not recognize an Israeli nationality, there is no such thing. According to the Israeli govt, nationality is assigned based on religion, for example, the Jewish nation exists with in Israel, and Israel is officially the state of the Jewish nation, but there is no Israeli nationality or else all the Arabs would have to be included in the nation of Israel. So Israel only deals in terms of citizenship. Well, many today, for these specific reasons, advocate for a state for ALL it's citizens, not only those who are members of the Jewish nation.
Certainly. The people on both side aren't blind. But they almost know of no way out other than to keep supporting leaders that push each other. My personal thought is the guy with the upper hand is the one in control of releasing the pressure to a point where they both can sit down and plan for a brighter future. From what I've seen, I don't think the current Israel leaders have any intention on doing that.
That is a horribly simplistic view, and mistaken view of the Palestinians. Further that type of argument could also be applied to the Israelis. I mean the Zionists conquered land that wasn't theirs. True their ancestors lived there but the vast majority of Zionists and those who lived in Israel now weren't directly descended from people who had lived in the region between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean for thousands of years. I agree that the Palestinians have to shoulder blame. They have been very ill served by leadership which was corrupt and venal in the case of Fatah or radical and nihlistic in the case of Hamas. That said that doesn't mean that Israel also hasn't made things much worse for them. Let me ask you this. If Hamas and Fatah both agreed to completely disarm tomorrow and also disarm other Palestinian groups, while Hamas also agreed to do away with their charter and accept the existence of Israel would there be peace? Would Israel agree to give the Palestinians a contiguous state, dismantle settlements, allow them economic independence, give them water rights, allow them to function as a true state including control of their own borders? Or if not giving them their own state would Israel allow the Palestinians to become citizens of Israel with the all the rights of citizens of Israel including the vote? When people talk peace most people talk about it only through one side and only narrowly. They don't consider that there is more to peace than just no threats of violence.
And again Israel controls the borders. There is a difference between smuggling guns and rockets and 2 mil people. The Gazans can't just move on their own. Also no one else will take them. You look at how many in the US are freaking about about 50K kids from Honduras and Guatemala so consider what would happen if it was 2 Mil from Gaza. If Israelis are so worried about the constant threat of Rockets or that an Arab horde might rise up to slaughter them why don't they move? Many Israelis hold dual citizenship with several countries already. This type of thinking does nothing to solve the problem.
That would be nice but I doubt that is possible. Jewish Israelis know that demographics of a single state would never favor them and until there is a Palestinian Mandela with the moral authority to prevent massive reprisals against the Jewish population in a single state I doubt most Jewish Israelis will accept a single state solution.
Yes, the Israelis did take land from the people who took the land from the people who took the land from the people who took the land and so on. Both Israelis and Palestinians have been conquers of the land at different times, but right now the Israelis have the land and they have a somewhat legitimate claim that is internationally recognized. That sort of settles it. True, but Israel has no responsibility to make things better for the Palestinians, that's their job. They wouldn't make them citizens of Israel, but would there be peace? Probably. Would they give them a contiguous state? No, almost certainly not because it would cut their state in half. As to the rest, there would be strong international pressure to ease up and honestly, no reason to not ease up on the Palestinian people if they accepted the existence of Israel and gave up their dreams of destroying them. Obviously it wouldn't happen overnight though because it would be seen as a trick and when they gave them the Gaza Strip it was supposed to lead to peace and all they got was rockets fired at them. Eventually though, if they were sincere, I think there would be peace. When there is peace between equals there is more of a give and take, when there is peace between a much stronger nation and a much weaker nation, the stronger nation sets the terms. It's just how it is. If Israel really wanted to, they could run the Palestinians out of Gaza and the West Bank and it would take maybe a few months and a couple hundred Israeli casualties while the Palestinians would almost certainly suffer thousands of casualties, the sides aren't equals. For there to be lasting peace the strong side has to be pacified, and usually that comes at the expense of the weak side not the other way around.
Obviously they don't control them that well if thousands of rockets are being smuggled in....Also, who says 2 million people would have to be smuggled all at once? There aren't even 2 million people in Gaza first of all, and if there was a steady stream of them leaving, it would make things much better for all and make the situation more "sustainable". They find a way to move on their own when it comes to attacking Israel, they could find a way to move on their own to leave if that's what they wanted. Sure, no one country is going to take a million refugees, especially given the Palestinians' track record, but there are many countries in the world they could move to....even if it wouldn't be easy. Well they are quite fine with the land they own, it's the Palestinians that aren't happy with the land they own. Are Israelis talking about how their land is "unsustainable", or are they just asking to stop having to kill Palestinians?
So to boil all of your arguments down it comes down to might makes right and the Israelis have the might.
