If you want to know how civilized a culture is, look at how they treat its women

You seem to think respecting women = knowing how a woman should act/exist.

I think respecting women = giving them the choice/opportunity to decide for themselves.

As for the actual content of your post, it's more of the same "blah blah blah society makes me mad because it doesn't conform to my preconceived ideal" drivel that you have been spewing ever since you came into this thread. It's not actually helping whatever point you're trying to make. If you have one, that is.

 

It seems like you think that respecting women means making sure they behave appropriately. I don't think many would agree that this is a type of respect.

1950s you could beat up your wife and rape her and not be charged with a crime. But yeah people were probably more likely to hold the door for her. Big deal.

 

I don't know why anyone is still replying to downbytheriver as though he is an actual person capable of reflective thought.

 

I agree with the bolded.

My point is : a LACK of culture means they are encouraged to make poor decisions. Poor decisions that they do not need to take accountability for because the lack of CULTURE means it's fine and accepted as a way of life, like the million dollar single TEEN MOMS who young girls see as "bold" and "confident" for doing what they want. America isn't the only nation where women have every opportunity to do what they want- but it is one where overindulgence, ignorance and working/breeding yourself to death so you can "work hard and play hard" are seen as the norm, strictly because of the a lowest common denominator culture.

You can point out barbaric islamic situations in tribes to feel better about yourself, but we have our own version with the rednecks in Georgia. Normal islamic families respect women a lot more, even if it means giving them the freedom to be mothers and look after their family. not everyone wants to be a breadwinner.

I don't say this is a christian, but as a man capable of individual thought. The libtards in this thread aren't big picture enough to GET THAT.

 

Middle Eastern Muslims don't give women the choice to stay home and raise their kids, they give them the choice between staying home with the kids or getting stoned to death. Let's be real.

America has its own issues to be sure which I've already addressed, but women are treated better here than they have been in most societies throughout history.

Seems to me that your definition of treating women well is restricted to keeping them at home and keeping their legs closed until you are ready to open them.

Hate to break it to you but that's not unique individual thought, that's the though of the majority of power obsessed men throughout history. Women belong at home taking care of MY kids and cooking MY food and looking pretty when I'M ready to have sex. Of course I want a few to be at the club so while I'm sipping my Manhattan/Old Fashioned/Side Car I have a firm butt to slap.

 

Ok calm down with the crazy.

 

I think we are all clear we are talking about the extreme sections here. I'm well aware there are Middle Eastern families and nations that are less strict than others.

 

Well then you should probably clarify and not generalize when making claims. Makes you come off as a loony nut.

There are extremists in every society. Israeli politicians calling for rape of Palestinians, slut shaming anti war Israelis etc etc. This also happens in other western countries. It happens in South Asian countries, India being one of the worst.

 

We are talking generalities here. Generally speaking, Western society is much more respectful to women than Middle Eastern society or South Asian society.

 

Then why are 2 million women assaulted in America every year? With more than half cases being unreported? Where is the respect in that? Stop being a hypocrite. Respect isn't only about being a successful politician or business person.

 

Folks, this is real. Ha

 

Ok now you're just trolling all the threads because you're frustrated. I hope you also know Hakeem Olajuwon attends and donates to all the mosques in Houston. Are you saying he supports terrorism?

 

Ok you're like 4 times older than me yet 4 times more childish when you're frustrated. Throwing false accusations around. Bye.

 

ATW is just a lost Jazz fan. Pay no mind.

 

I already pointed out that America has issues with violence towards women.

Not being hypocritical at all. America has issues and isn't perfect but it is better with regards to the treatment of women than the Middle East.

 

No comparison here.

The way women are treated in the middle East vs the Western world is night and day.

There is not much to debate unless you're an extreme islam follower defending the indefensible. Women are treated like the crap that comes out of my anus in that religion.

Zero freedom, can't make their own decisions. Basically just lackeys

 

I think it's funny there are people arguing that women are more respected in current Muslim-dominant cultures than America. The fact that people on the opposite side even feel the need to argue this is worrisome, though. In the current overall treatment of women, America is easily superior to the other countries.

What I would definitely say to rhadamanthus and fcdchowd is:

1) Don't conflate cultural values and legal framework together. Legally speaking, there is certainly no comparison between protections for women in the Middle East and Western democratic nations. But this is a discussion of either culture or country - and from what I gather, the issues you addressed were those of culture. As far as culture goes, the legal framework in those places have literally no relation to cultural or religious values because there are virtually no Muslim dominant countries where the law/government is representative of the people/culture. This is an understandable error because from what I know, you guys grew up in a country where the government and the legal framework are at least somewhat influenced by people/culture.

2) Do not conflate Muslim dominated countries together in terms of culture. There is a vast difference, for example, between Tunisia, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Iran. No comparison whatsoever if we are looking purely at present cultural attitudes towards, opportunities for, and success of women. Tunisia's culture is so far left of the Islamic spectrum to Saudi Arabia. There is too much to explain about Tunisia, but if you are interested I'm confident than a basic rational google search will surprise you. Saudi Arabia is Saudi Arabia. Lebanese women are accepted as extremely liberal, there is absolutely no stigma attached to - for example - a young Lebanese girl dating or living with her bf or moving abroad. If not constantly at threat of foreign-fueled power Hizbollah, Lebanon based on its people's culture would be as liberated as any Western democratic country. In the UAE women are thriving dramatically. In the FNC, the only government body to which citizens are "elected", women are dominating. Universities are overrun with women. The workforce is being dominated in number and in status by women. If a women files for divorce - let's say stating domestic abuse as the reason - she will take the children and get paid for life by the husband after she is swiftly granted divorce. The only obstacle being a mandatory counselling session with a certified psychologist specializing in social relationships. These are results. Today an Emirati woman does not make less than an Emirati man neither at entry level nor as a CEO, of which there are plenty. Today, if as in fchowd's example, a man raises his hand and smacks his wife an Emirati woman will shove the Louboutin shoes she bought with her own money so far up the man's ass that he'll only wake up when he's in front of the judge being told what to do. Such is the CULTURE today, even if some older men resent this new found equality.

The distinction here is not between genders. It's between nationalities. These same protections and opportunities may not exist to non-Emiratis. That's not good. But speaking to this debate we're having, it has absolutely nothing to do with the culture of the citizens, and even legally is not a gender-based distinction.

One thing is clear: you can talk about gender equality all you want but what we write down on a piece of paper matters little until we collectively allow women the same protections, support and opportunities as men. If you're living in a place where the citizens culture is allowed to transfer to law, that certainly helps, and the law becomes a reflection of the culture. But please, let's not imply that Saudi Arabian culture is a static entity and that its identity is revealed in the regressive laws of that country. Now should we behave that, with all due respect to fchowd, the behavior of his father is representative of the entire culture of Muslims in a vacuum. That's just ridiculous, especially given fchowd's background as a Marine - meaning he is exposed to Bengali culture, as well as the cultures of Afghanis and maybe Iraqis in the midst of invasion/war by definition of his being there to witness it.

 

I'm not denying that culture is an influencing factor. In fact in my post I did indeed state culture and religion.

Also, could it not be said that Islam is a product of Arabian values and culture around 600AD?