Israel Launches Ground Invasion of Gaza

Or in other words, yes, they should just sit back and allow the massive number of rocket strikes on their citizens for fear that if they respond to it then the Palestinian people will vote in the exact same terrorist government they already have in place.....it doesn't follow.

 

Egyptian government is against Muslim Brotherhood which in turn makes them against Hamas. They'll work with Israel to prevent future fighting, which is the direct result of increasing supply of rockets inside Gaza via Egypt.

 

You can respond in a couple of ways---

1) Talk with the Hamas-Fatah unity government, isolate Hamas, move settlements back to reward Fatah, see how elections go given that Hamas has not been paying its people, and also not providing basic utilities---winning conditions for another election win! Especially with how they kowtowed to the PA in this one. Go for peace, even if it's a long-term process.

2) Go into Gaza and kill your way through, therefore being probably the only thing worse than a hegemonic, violent political group that doesn't pay anybody, and can't even provide power. Go for war, because it feels good in the short-term.

The choice is clear: for every elector Israel kills, huh.

 

I think they are hoping that the Palestinian people wise up and realize that electing a terrorist government is only going to lead to more dead Palestinians. If they can't see causation and put the blame where it belongs, on Hamas, then in a way, they deserve what is happening to them. The problem with living in a democracy is that you aren't really ever "innocent" or separated from the actions of your government. When the government is of the people and by the people, the people are to blame when they screw up. Same goes for every democracy.

 

Dangerous words Bobby, the same A-Q uses to justify attacks on American civilians.

Are you, for example, responsible for the network of torture cells in Iraq, the murders of prisoners, the bloody Uzbek and Somali tyrants American funding has unleashed on the world, the overwrought surveillance state being built before our eyes and etc.---even if you worked your entire life against these policies?

Could you be "held to account"---to blame when your administration screws up (as it has numerous times)?

 

Northside Storm has never been right on anything.

 

I argue yes. I view democracy in a similar way as Socrates in Crito. By choosing to live in a country, a citizen is implicitly endorsing the actions of that state and as a result I think it is fair to be held accountable for the actions of that state....though I don't think a person necessarily has to be held accountable.

If the US was doing something I considered abhorrent, and the people didn't care enough to stop it, I'd leave.

As to AQ, I fully understand why they are doing what they are doing, I understand the justifications they tell themselves and anyone who cares to listen.....they feel they are protecting their people. I don't feel the need to vilify them in order to be okay with the notion of killing them on a mass scale to prevent their actions. They simply think differently than I do, they have a different world perspective, they aren't "evil". The sooner everyone figures that out, the sooner more people will understand what's going on.

Most groups that people like to label "evil" be it commies, nazis, or terrorists simply have a different world perspective and the most "evil" actions are usually done with the best of intentions.

I argue that we are no different and so if I found myself overseas and kidnapped by AQ, I'd understand why they might want to hold me accountable for the actions of the US.....doesn't mean I'd like it though.

 

Not very many people have a real choice on where they live. This is some flawed logic.

 

Rather than smuggling weapons, they could use their tunnels to get people out of Gaza to Egypt, but they prefer to keep people in that s**thole

 

If only they'd agreed to give up their land, there'd be no problem. :grin:

 

Maybe if not so many of them were wearing bomb straps.

 

Nope!

 

You'd leave? Where would you go to? And I assume you're still here so you believe our country hasn't done anything abhorrent in its history? Finally, you realize not everyone has the resources or the freedom to buy a ticket to go elsewhere, and so on (and I'm talking about the US not Gaza). This isn't Ancient Greece where you hop island to island or go to the next valley over if you feel your conscience prick.

As you can tell, I completely disagree with your view. Talking to a majority of people, few believe we have any true say or selection in American politics. Many aren't even informed about what the state does, doesn't do, and its past policies. Some don't even vote. The only people I hold responsible for Hamas's actions are the org itself and the people who voted for it with the intent to drive her neighbor into the sea.

 

dmc89, what do you have to say about what ISIS is doing in Iraq?

Where are the worldwide demonstrations of Muslims against this?

 

dude like every Muslim nation on Earth, including Iran, Syria, the remnants of Iraq, f**k even A-Q---are like actively bombing/denouncing ISIS. I don't know if that was your best attempt at derailing a thread lol.

 

What ISIS and all extremist terrorist organizations have done throughout the world and what their punishment should be cannot be described in polite language. Only swift and decisive violence can stop this cancer. There are several videos in the Deep Web and on Live Leaks where I saw what atrocities this group committed in June. Hint: it involved a pregnant woman, a machete, lots of blood, and chants to how great their flying spaghetti monster was.

I understand how you and several posters here view Islam as a 'death cult ideology'. The way you perceive my faith, the chills, anger, and frustration you experience when seeing more headlines of bearded men bringing their destructive world-view into your beautiful and clean German village, I get it. I've spoken with enough members of Golden Dawn, anti-immigration groups in the US and France, and so on who have similar fears as you do. If I could give you a sci-fi bubble which would cocoon your culture and society in safety, I would.

The answer to your fears lies with moderate Muslims, strengthening their societies to have freedom of expression, well paying jobs, and a non-authoritarian state that's not corrupt and which keeps everyone safe. It would also help if your immigration system were overhauled. You let it in too many people who bring nothing of value to your society and/or you let them form parallel societies instead of assimilating them. Once they enter, the state forgets about them. If they were educated about your secular values, things might be different.

As for protests, a Pew poll said 1/2 the Muslims in the Islamic world are worried about extremist groups in their country. The problem is, extremist groups scare the living daylights out of anyone living in UAE, Indonesia, Pakistan, etc. If you talk to them behind closed doors, they'll speak out. Yet if you ask them to say that on the streets and on TV, they'll refuse. The simple answer is most are too afraid. The extremist groups are well-funded and their reach is long through a network of sympathizers and informants (like Mossad).

Btw, I'm shocked to discover you're Asian. I've always thought you looked like this guy:



Instead you're,

 

Please spoiler large images next time, Northside Storm. I like keeping my window width the same.

 

I'm somewhere in between. I'm half Asian, and much better-looking (and also quite a bit younger) than either of those guys.