[George Karl] "Rockets let Parsons go because they are going after a PG"

Dragic has elite shot creation ability, absolutely elite. A lower volume and lesser defensive attention doesn't make that come out worse, it generally comes out better.... (see Harden OKC efficiency)

Harden --> Dragic ---------------------------> Lin is about their gap as players

 

1) Why would the Suns, who are hoping to make the playoffs, trade their starting SG for what amounts to cap space they already have and an average 1st round pick? If they wanted to trade Dragic you don't think they could do better than that?

2) What would we have left to trade for a "good PF" in your scenario?

 

On one hand George Karl did spend time with Daryl Morey in Las Vegas recently. However, on the other hand Karl has always had a big mouth that has got him in trouble at virtually every stop he has made in his coaching career.

I do think that there is something going on funny in Phoenix though. They have Dragic, Bledsoe, Thomas and Ennis at the 1/2 now. Teams attempted to trade Ennis and Phoenix had no interest. Someone is going to end up being the odd man out. That doesn't mean that the Rockets will end up with Dragic (I am not sure the Rockets even have the assets) but someone in that Suns backcourt won't be there long term and it isn't going to be Thomas (who they just signed). It could very well be that the Suns know that someone (Houston) will clear cap space and offer max money to Dragic next year.

One word of caution on Dragic, everyone talks about his breakout season, and he did up his game, but what he mostly did was thrive in PNR and also become more of a SG and less of a PG last year.

 

see if you can sign bledsoe with MLE for 2yr deal and use him as trade chip down the road...like dec 15th for klove

 

The problem with point guards is this

Who do you trade someone with a 1+1 option too

Spurs? nope, Thunder? nope, Clippers? lol, Blazers? nope, Warriors? nope, Memphis? well no, Dallas? they've got nothing, Miami? nothing, Cleveland? no, Indiana? What do they have to trade? Hibbert? Chicago, no, Toronto? no, Washington? nope, Brooklyn? for? that's the top 15 besides us

The long term point guard solutions are everywhere in the current nba, they're like cockroaches.

 

Well I think it's a strong bet that they don't count on all of them being there NEXT year.

It's also worth noting on Dragic that last year was quite significantly better than he has been prior. We'll see if he sustains that level of production. But yeah, he played SG for PHX, not PG. He'd play some of the same role here though.

Laughable.

 

I wasn't making the case that Jeremy is better than Dragic now, I'm not a fool. I'm just saying that their numbers from 2012/13 were essentially identical (Lin shot better from 3, Dragic 1 more assist per game), and I don't believe Dragic sees the improvement from that year to last year in Houston if he's not THE guy.

 

The Suns may trade Dragic, but I agree with you. Put yourself in the Suns position, why do you trade your best player? If you ARE going to trade him, why trade him now, and not mid season after collecting a few extra wins?

I do not doubt that Morey would LOVE to add Dragic to the Rockets. However, what does Houston have that Phoenix wants?

As far as losing Jones, and wanting to know what PF we would have... I am not worried about that, Morey has shown even this off season, he is willing to create huge holes if he can get an elite player.

 

They still have Gerald Green too, who averaged 16 ppg at the 2 spot.

 

Agree with all of this.

My point with that was the poster said "get Dragic and then trade what's left for a good PF."

What would be left that could net you a good anything? Maybe you could get a new hot dog vendor but certainly not a "good PF."

 

Their roster should be called Phoenix's Art of Kahn

 

I agree, I also don't see how you can trade dragic when he just had a +20 point season with a FG% of over 50% and 3pt over 40%, truly outrages stats from goran. Also, he plays the 2 better than Bledsoe and Thomas is a PG at under 6 ft.

Suns have so much cap space that if they don't get a really good offer they can keep bledsoe for a year and not bat an eye. I guess the one kink for Phoenix is that Goran has an option year next year, but again, he wanted to go back to Phoenix and I get the feeling he has no intention of leaving, championships be damned.

 

Not sure I understand the desire to go after another starting point guard. If you look at RPM rankings for point guards, it looks like this:

1) Chris Paul
2) Stephen Curry
3) Russell Westbrook
4) Mike Conley
5) Patrick Beverley
6) Kyle Lowry
7) Eric Bledsoe
8) Ricky Rubio

Goran Dragic is listed as a SG, but he'd be 10th on the list if he was listed as a point guard.

If you look at WAR, the rankings look like this:

1)Stephen Curry
2) Chris Paul
3) Kyle Lowry
4) Ricky Rubio
5) Mike Conley
6) Damian Lillard
7) Ty Lawson
8) John Wall
9) Patrick Beverley

(Dragic would be 6th on this list)

So it's debatable whether Ricky Rubio has a bigger impact than Beverley, but I think the takeaway from this is that Beverley is a lot better than people give him credit for, and that adding an elite point guard might be less of an upgrade than you think when you consider production above replacement.

On the other hand, Houston doesn't have a power forward on the roster that ranks above 39 by either metric, so a power forward is an obvious place to upgrade (duh).

The other possibility is that Morey is looking to add another point guard to the starting lineup, and push Harden to the 3 spot (with Ariza coming off the bench). We have been after an elite power forward for so long, but perhaps that just isn't in the cards for us. As someone else already pointed out, there are a lot of great point guards available, and with the way the league is going, maybe it would be easier to get one of those and play two at once than to get the power forward we covet. Rubio makes more sense in that respect because he is big enough to guard most shooting guards, and we all know Beverley is perfectly comfortable playing off the ball. As that Kirk Goldsberry diagram showed, he isn't the worst three point shooter in the world, and we have enough other finishers on the team to survive if he isn't the best driver.

 

You aren't using RPM the right way

It doesn't tell you who is better

 

1) I don't know. Why would they sign Isaiah Thomas to a 4 year $28 million deal and draft a PG when they already have two very good point guards?

2) Beverley, Canaan, Johnson, TJones, DMo, Rights to Capela/Papanikolaou/Gentile/Llull, 2015 NYK 2nd round pick, DEN/MIN 2015 2nd round pick. Don't forget, behind point guards, power forward is the deepest position in the league

 

1) Gragic is a SG, not a PG

2) Outside of Beverly, that's a whole lot of nothing. If Jones, a power forward, was really valuable in your mind why would you want to trade him for...a power forward.

 

Dragic would be a huge upgrade for the Rockets. He is probably the most effective PNR scorer in the NBA last year. He was DEADLY. Also, the offensive upgrade over Beverley is massive. It also allows the Rockets to move Beverley to the bench where he can guard 1's and 2's.

A rotation of: Harden/Dragic/Beverley is about as good as you will find in the NBA.

Ask yourself this... take out Jeremy Lin from the Blazers playoff series last year, and plug in Dragic..... do the Rockets lose that series, or to they win in 5 against Portland and go 6 or 7 against the Spurs?

 

Best way to explain it is that the Suns do not differentiate between SG and PG, they want ball handlers that can score on the floor... and Dragic, LAST year was far more of a scorer than a distributor and he excelled.

 

a distinct possibility. I always get mixed up in the value of one advance stat vs the other and I was too lazy to refresh my memory. I figure I'd post both so smarter people than me could pick out the importance of each.

 

1) He played PG for us, and was a PG for the vast majority of his minutes in PHX last year. I'll grant you that he's a combo-guard, just as Bledsoe is a combo guard.

2) TJones is valuable to the right team. As are DMo, our Euros, and our 2015 2nd round picks. Again, you have tons of very good PGs in the league right now. It's not going to cost as much as you think to get one.