[Woj] Rockets finalizing deal to send Omer Asik to New Orleans

Remember the time Morey traded Brooks to play Lowry more minutes, and traded Lowry to play Dragic more minutes, and let Dragic go to sign Lin, and traded Lin for ....?

Trading one flawed star player for another flawed star player doesn't change the fact that they are flawed in the first place for good reasons.

You are pissed about the Portland series I get that. But what you are wanting is basically to trade a green apple for a red apple, but an apple is an apple at the end of the day. Going back to the supermarket and asking for an exchange only delays the timing it takes for you to get fed & risks the apple going bad(see Morey's PG exchange).

Trading Harden for means to sign Melo & Lebron.... In that alternate universe (if that's what is necessary)......I get that.

Trading Harden for Kevin Love with no means to sign a 3rd star..... simply.....is stupid(especially when you are making the trade based on EMOTIONAL responses to being let down by a playoff series).

There is really no other way around that logic.

 

1. Right now, the Rockets have Howard, Harden and a bunch of assets (players, picks, possible cap flexibility) with which to chase a third high level player.

If the Rockets trades Harden for Love, then they have Howard, Love and the same bunch of assets with which to chase a third high level player.

The team has the same means to chase another high level player whether or not it trades Harden for Love. In fact, it may even have more if the Rockets get MIN to throw in anther asset with Love to make up the difference between the contract value of the two players (Love being able to leave in one year, Harden is committed for 4 more-- an important factor for Minnesota).

2. The wisdom in trading Harden has nothing to do with emotions. It's a matter of objective evidence.

Harden play ****ty no effort defense all year during his fifth season in the NBA. This isn't just a matter of my personal opinion, but is reflected in his xRAPM/RPM stats, caught on game film and openly discussed by everyone from Zach Lowe to cyberx. He did this during a season in which a veteran elite teammate was added to the team, when the team was making a run for playoff seeding and when the team was trying hard to advance in the playoffs.

The importance of these things isn't so much how it makes fans feel, but what it says about the player's ability and desire to perform at a true elite level in the future. Objectively, Harden's defense hampers a team and needs to be fixed. Objectively, one has to wonder what the odds are that Harden makes a substantial improvement on defense. Is it 75%? 60%?

Every player has a range of possible performance levels in the future. One can never be 100% certain. The best that one can do, and this is what Morey attempts to do, is to analyze accumulated data to make an educated guess on the probability distribution of future outcome. What Harden did during the 2013-14 season is a part of this data.

It doesn't mean that the team should throw away Harden for nothing or even that Harden is not overall a helpful talented player. But it does mean that if one has a chance to exchange Harden for a player with a more favorable probability distribution, one should do it.

4. The data, to me, suggests that Love is such a player. His xRAPM/RPM is significantly better than Harden's. He isn't a great defender, but he is still significantly more effective than Harden largely because he actually tries and pays attention. His combination of elite rebounding (on both ends of the floor), excellent scoring/shooting and passing from the PF spot is harder to find than even Harden's skill set.

You can disagree with this, but this isn't about emotions about one series, but an assessment of what Harden's play all season means to his likely future performance.

 

Fact: Harden is a poor defender. Why would the Wolves want him? Since he is not a two way player, he is not a true star. They can get a all round player with less talent plus more for Love.

 

we play no what 4 times a year?

 

Because he is still a top 25-30 level player despite his atrocious defense and is more valuable than, say, GS's Klay Thompson packages. Because while there are doubts about whether Harden can fix his D, there is likely more of a chance of that happening than Love changing his mind about leaving in 2015.

Of course, this all comes down to what MIN's front office guys' assessment of all these things. They might well love Parsons more than Harden for all we know-- not a reasonable position really but it's their decision to make, not ours.

 

To get rid of Harden, we will have to give up at least 2 First rounders.

 

He's only 24.

 

25-30....he is 24 and just finished 5th in MVP voting.

 

It's Carl, what were you expecting him to say?

 

Please enlighten me then, how exactly do we build a team? Why don't we trade Howard for Splitter and Harden for Danny Green then, surely if we fill the Spurs roster with stars and empty their team fo players "greater than the sum of their parts" then they will lose and we will win. Right? RIGHT????

LOL wtf man, this isn't mighty ducks the prequel-sequel, this is real life, and in real life nothing prevents the stars from playing as a team. When Miami won last year where was all the kum-bah-yah nonsens from the Spurs? Where was the vaunted team play? Why did the big, bad selfish not 1 not 2 not 3 Miami Heat win then?

What really irks me about the Spurs lovefest is 99% of the people admiring the Spurs don't know what makes them special. The spurs aren't focusing on team play or being there for each other or having no stars or whatever kind of BS you can think off. Tactics. Discipline. Execution. These are the hall marks of the Popovich system, he draws up a play and you do it or you're gone, period. Rather than being a "team", the Spurs are more like a mechanical masterpiece, a watch made by the very best Swiss masters with all pieces doing their role to perfection to achieve a designed result. Talent has no part in the equation, it only determines how much burden you will bear, so we say talented guys like Leonard guarding LBJ and scoring while role players like Green limited to open 3 pointers.

If LBJ, Wade and Bosh all signed with the Spurs they will still show the same glorious offense and still play just as hard on D as the Spurs role players did. That's because the stars are better in every way than role players, hence they're called stars. Being a star is not a handicap it's a compliment FYI.

 

I'm surprised you have him rank so high. Your favorite pet stat in every Harden discussion has him at 45.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM

Clearly the Rockets should try to sell Minnesota to take the TRUE top-20 player, which by that list is Patrick Beverley.

 

My stance on Harden's defense is that he saves his energy for offense, knowing he is the primary scorer. If the Rockets get a 3rd star, it will lessen the offensive burden on Harden, allowing him to play better defensively, which we have seen in stretches like the last game of the portland series. People can disagree with that belief but that's my two cents.

 

Carl you might as well stop rooting for the Rockets. Harden iant going anyplace any time soon.

 

It's a mindset. Some players like to score and like to play offense. Then when they are on defense, they are lazy because they think the rest of the team can handle it. And if the other team scores, then who cares because we'll get it back on the offensive end. It sucks when you work so hard on defense and then the other team scores anyway.

Harden will sometimes play defense... but that's only when he's pumped up from something he did on the offensive end.

I know this midset well, because I used to be like that. Then I grew up and learned how just 1 player can cause a whole defense to break down and realized everybody has to play D.

He's got to have a "want" to play defense. He's got to change his mind-set.

 

I wonder if that is Morey's contingency plan if Lebron/Melo sweepstakes fail. Anderson & Austin is not a bad fallback.

 

Yes. What team would want the all NBA 1st team shooting guard!

 

What objective person ranks Harden around #20 in the league?

 

In 2013, Asik's only year as a full time starter he faced Dwight (LAL) 3 times.

Howard averaged 20pts, 14.3 reb, 3.7blks on 50% shooting in his 3 games vs Asik.

Asik averaged 8.67 pts, 10 reb, 0.33 blks and shot 61.9% FG%.

Also remember that in 2013 Dwight was still recovering from back surgery and was playing with an injured shoulder.

We'll be fine.

 

Lowe, the guy you always like to cite as the unbiased knowledgable observer, even after this season and the playoff debacle has him as a top 15 guy.

 

Well if you had to start with a blank slate and pick players round by round for all 30 teams where would Harden go? I personally would take guys like Love, Ibaka and Duncan before thinking about Harden.