That's exactly the point...even if LeBron is a draft option...a team would trade an unknown commodity (#1 Draft pick) for a known Superstar (Kobe). And nobody in this draft is nearly the prospect LeBron was. I just dont see why any team with a superstar in place would give that up for any draft pick. The numbers just dont make sense to pull that kind of a deal, imo.
Well I guess that's where we differ. I don't think Harden is the caliber player that Kobe is. Kobe at the time was a 1st tier player, Harden is not and I just doubt he ever will be and I hope he proves me wrong. Therefore I don't see the Cavs (or the team behind them...) taking Harden. I'm not saying the Rockets would trade Harden, I'm saying that the Cavs would not do the trade. I didn't even say they'd be better than Harden...but Harden has some improving to do...but I'm saying that teams are always willing to bet and gamble on sky high potential like this.
I'm just happy that this post only got one star....Not even gonna bother reading this thread. That's how dumb.....
JayGoogle, did your parents never teach you, "one in the hand is worth two in the bush?" I respect your username, but bro c'mon...
Do you need more attention from your peers? I'm here for you. And I am listening. Tell me everything.
Why is it bad? Because some people decided this thread was about actually wanting to trade Harden for a rookie, given our current situation? It is what it is, just a way to see what people perceive his value to be and compare that to the potential they see in this draft.
This is ridiculous.... The problem with potential is that even though they have the potential to be an All-Star, they also have the potential to be a bust. That is not just true for this draft, that is true for every draft. That's why there are guys like Sam Bowie, Kwame Brown, Darko Milicic, Johnny Flynn, Derrick Williams, Anthony Bennett, Hasheem Thabeet, Adam Morrison, Michael Beasley and Michael Olowokandi, just to name a few. Why would this draft be any different? All of those guys came into the draft with potential. All of them were considered to be good or even great. None of them panned out. And for some reason this draft is expected to be different? Why? Because the media has been saying it was a loaded draft for awhile? Did you watch Wiggins? There are some things he did well but he has a ton of improvement to do if he wants to be an All-Star. Same for Jabari Parker. Embiid? He could be anywhere from the next Hakeem Olajuwon or the next Greg Oden. Reports were that the Cavs were trying to trade the #1 pick. Maybe that's not true, maybe it is. James Harden, at 24 years old, still has time to improve. But he is already an All-Star. He is already All-NBA. And he will be for several more years. You don't trade that for maybe.
i would have traded him for this years #1 and 2 future first rounders without any protection ... if thats even doable ... then go after Lebron and (one more of the following) Melo Rondo Love
Nah, I said the Rockets wouldn't trade Harden given their situation I'm saying the Cavs wouldn't trade Wiggins either, therefore Harden's value wouldn't be the #1 pick. Only one of those guys you named came into the NBA as a great prospect and that was Beasley. Who really thought Bennett or Brown or Morrison was going to be something special? Sam Bowie is always hurt, which is something you can never predict any ways. The only reason the Cavs thought of trading the pick was to make the team more attractive to Lebron.
If you think NBAdraft.net is the only site talking up the potential of Wiggins then that's not my problem. I follow these guys for a long time though, Wiggins was a #1 pick when he was like 16. That's not a prospect that comes out every year, period. Dude is not a finished product but no rookie ever is. Once again, look at the history of #1 picks. More often than not you are getting a all-star player at least. The maths tells you that pretty clearly.
I'm pretty sure that if this was on a neutral board my opinion on this wouldn't be so lopsided. Again, Knick fans don't even want Harden in a SnT for Melo and seem like they would instead just like the capspace back. It is what it is. The cold hard truth is that we all know Harden is a great player but he's not a special player. Otherwise we wouldn't be so desperate for a third star. Maybe the guy can become that, but he's got like a season or two left before he stops being 'young'. Dudes don't dramatically increase usually after the age of 26. Some rare cases of that happening though I guess.
Not true. Adam Morrison: "Perhaps the best pure scorer at the NCAA level....Adam Morrison is undoubtedly a top 5 pick, and could go as high as number one depending on which team is selecting there" (written in 2006, http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Adam-Morrison-NBA-Draft-Scouting-Report-2790/) Darko Milicic: "He's the real deal. He's really one of a kind. He runs the floor, shoots the NBA 3-pointer, plays with his back to the basket....what sets Darko apart is his toughness in the post.....Fact is, Milicic plays in attack-mode at both ends of the floor. The more you push, the more he pushes back." (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/d03/story?id=1572643) Kwame Brown: "Like Garnett, KB has freakish athleticism.....very graceful running the floor. Tremendous leaping ability. Passes and handles extraordinarily well for a 6-11 player. May still be growing. Touch on shots is excellent, and should only improve. Post game is solid. Very good shot blocker." (http://www.nbadraft.net/players/kwame-brown/) Want me to keep going? You can easily find things like this by "draft experts" for almost all the top draft picks. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they get it wrong. You even brought up Beasley. He was awesome in college. Draft experts said all sorts of great things about him ("A fabulous athlete with an NBA ready body....there are few doubts about him becoming a bigtime impact talent at the next level"). And.....he didn't become a bigtime impact talent. You never know in the draft. There are very, very few for sure players. Maybe Wiggins, or Parker, or Embiid will be. Maybe they won't. Draft analysts have said good things about them, but they have said good things about players before who turned out to be nothing but busts. True, Bowie's career was never really able to get started because of his injuries. If it wasn't hard enough to evaluate just the talent of the players, when you have to include something as hard to predict as injuries as well makes it even harder. We don't know if Embiid will be a good player. And even if he is, we don't know if his body will be able to hold up over the course of an entire NBA season. Maybe he becomes the next Sam Bowie? Or the next Greg Oden? Maybe he becomes Bill Walton or Yao Ming, and starts off on a good career but injuries catch up to him before he can really get going. Injuries can happen to any player, even James Harden. But at least with Harden, up to this point, he has proven to be durable and able to make it through two NBA seasons playing major minutes as the primary go-to player with only minor things that he had to take a couple of games off for. If the Cavs are trying to attract Lebron, and everyone in the NBA values the potential of these guys like you are talking about, why would they want to trade away what is supposed to be so valuable? Was it because the Cavs are trying to find an older, more NBA ready player? Perhaps one that has already proven what they are capable of and not just some speculations of a supposed analyst? And if everyone in the NBA valued the potential of these guys like you say they do, how come people in the NBA weren't knocking down Cleveland's door offering guys like Kevin Love, or Klay Thompson, or Rajon Rondo, or Deron Williams...etc. Surely it couldn't be because they valued the players who have already proven to be studs in the NBA (like Harden) over the unknown, possible potential?
That's because they don't ever watch him.... And of course after the usual "man I hate Harden's game" which is understandable, it's a very aesthetically unappealing style, common sense kicked in, even with Knicks fans
This same argument is going on in another thread where a poster actually made a tip jar bet that Parker (drafted #2 I think) is already a better player than James Harden. IMO Jay#1 is putting way too much value on potential. Lots of players have high ceilings, freak athleticism and show great potential in college. The best of the best get picked in the lottery. How many of those picks every year turn out to even be all star caliber players? First team all NBA players? I'm with photojoe. Give me the known quantity. Give me one of the best players in the NBA right now. I don't want the magic beans or what's behind door number three. I'm not chasing the inside straight on the turn or the river card. Gambling is fine if you know what you're betting and you can afford to lose. Gambling with your career is something else, and that's what a GM would be doing by trading a known quantity for the chance at something better.
Wow. I'm shocked by some of the comments here. Harden is a sure thing in the sense that you know what you're getting, while the draft picks are not. Despite his piss poor defense, Harden is still a top 20 player in this league at the age of 24. The entire draft class could all turn out to be duds or slightly above average players. I guess if you don't mind gambling on the future of your franchise, which btw, hasn't won diddly squat in the last 2 decades and you don't mind another 2 decades of this blatant mediocrity, then I guess it's alright. Now, if this question was regarding Harden's worth against some of the top free agents like Lebron and/or Melo...that would be a more relevant question and one that could be worth exploring.
Not according to JayWilliamsGoogle, who has read nbadraft.net - apparently, scouts are convicned that all of the top 3 picks are 100% locks to be All Stars, and more likely All-NBA caliber. He is about to list scouts opinions for us. I am ready to be wow'd.
