Has Lebron surpassed Magic/Bird in your All Time Greatest List?

MILK HAIR!!!!!!!

 

just appreciate lebron and the spurs for the time we have them.

but still, **** THEM BOTH!!!

 

Bird's career stats (and the guy played with a bad back for the last four years of his career) compare very favorably to Lebron's career stats to this point. The stats are nearly identical with Bird rebounding more and Lebron scoring more. It's absolutely amazing how many assists Bird racked up when he was not even a primary ball handler the way Lebron is.

I'm sorry but I would take prime Bird over prime Lebron but I understand why others disagree.

 

It is nearly impossible for Lebron to surpass MJ thanks to the Dallas Mavericks. Losing in the Finals to the Mavs set back Lebron's legacy back significantly. Forming the super friends in Miami did the same but probably to a lesser extent.

 

Do you mean if they played together but did not benefit from playing with the following HOF teammates:

Dennis Johnson
Robert Parish
Kevin McHale
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
James Worthy

Did you know that Magic had five different teammates who received at least one MVP vote during his first seven years in the league? How many Cavs other than Lebron received an MVP vote from 2003-2010?

 

Context, we cannot explain it to them.

 

Not so amazing when you adjust for pace.

 

I simply don't like James. I don't care if he "paces," or spins like a top. Sure, I enjoy watching him play. The man is clearly a great basketball player. However, since we're being asked if he has "surpassed Magic/Bird in your All Time Greatest List," I have to say no. Were I given the choice of picking Prime Time (as in healthy/not on the decline) Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, or Lebron James for the mythical team I own, I'd probably flip a coin between Magic and Bird, and pick the winner of the toss over Mr. Lebron James. Magic and Bird were stone cold killers on the court. They could be beaten, even when everything was on the line, like when the Rockets eliminated the defending champion Lakers in the WC Finals in 1986, with a team consisting of a young Ralph Sampson, a younger Olajuwon, and a bunch of "no name" players. Yeah, the one guy I'd take over all 3 is Hakeem, but he isn't on the list. Bummer. Sure, Hakeem wasn't a wing (although he frequently played like he had wings), but neither was Jabbar, who's been mentioned here and there in this thread. Since my choices were Bird/Johnson/James, give me one of Bird or Magic at their peak.

 

Lebron had the chance to surpass these guys and may still do it but his attitude early on in his career killed any chance of him passing MJ. If he was as serious when he entered the league as he was after joining the Heat then there is no doubt that he would be the GOAT. However, he strikes me as kind of a natural talent who likes to coast. A semi-Tmac minus the health issues in a slightly larger body.

His attitude alone towards the game automatically knocks him down a few notches on that list. He might have enough talent and luck to rack up enough of the accolades but you never know when the injury bug could hit.

Also can ppl stop claiming that Lebron is a faithful husband and great dad? He's an NBA star. Everyone believed MJ was this great guy for years and it turns out they're all human males who will more than likely screw a hot girl or guy (depending on their preference) groupie.

 

He is nothing like tmac.

He usually guards the best player on defense, on top of playing point and being the leading scorer with high efficiency.

He works on his game- his percentages have gone up and he improved his post game.

TMac pretty much got worse as his career wore on. LeBron is finding ways to get better.

 

People wouldn't think the same about Bird and Magic, if they didn't play on talented teams, like the Lakers and Celtics.

If you gave Wilt, Dream, LeBron, and even Oscar Robertson ... talented teams early in their careers.

You cannot compare Bird/Magic to the others, because they never played for a Cleveland/Cincinnati/New Orleans... I'll throw in Houston.

People like to say LeBron cheated, but how do you attract quality players to Cleveland....

 

Adjust for usage vs. LeBron?

You mean the old "LeBron had to do more for his team so it's not fair to Bird" argument?

A good one, that. OK, let's pretend & adjust his numbers for "usage" - if LeBron didn't make baskets, or get assists, or get rebounds he'd have less baskets or assists or rebounds? WTF is that supposed to tell us?

If LeBron were a high usage, low efficiency player who just put up big raw numbers maybe you'd have a point. Actually you wouldn't, because you don't understand usage. But you'd be closer to stumbling onto one.

Unfortunately for you, he's one of the single most efficient (overall) players in the history of the universe - at a level that Bird & others never came close to doing.

 

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Tmac got worse b/c of injuries. I was saying they were both natural phenoms who coasted on their talents for a good portion of their careers (in Tmac's case his entire career). IMO, T-mac was more talented than Lebron. Lebron's high shooting efficiency mostly comes from many uncontested dunks.

 

Not shying away from contact and working out in the offseason. More talented, maybe, but if it wasn't actualized, what's the point. Regardless, he's found different methods of scoring efficient...how come T-Mac couldn't do same?

 

Looking at their stats, they are eerily similar. Yeah, he will inevitably pass up Bird but not on my list. I would still take a prime Bird over prime Lebron.

 

Not as much as you would like to believe...

From age 20-27, T-Mac's scoring average was 25.32 ppg versus Lebron's 28.47 ppg.

T-Mac only averaged over 6 assists, once...Lebron's only failed to reach 6 ast, once in his career. Lowest in a season ... 5.9.

LeBron's 28th all time in assists per game. Players behind him ... Mookie Blaylock...Mark Price...Gary Payton...Maurice Cheeks...Jerry West...Larry Bird... Walt Frazier...Fat Lever...Tony Parker...Terrell Brandon...Scott Skiles...and Reggie Theus.

Guess who he is neck and neck with...Jose Calderon and Andre Miller. Two pure point guards.

LeBron averaged 7.0 apg from age 20-27 vs. T-Mac's 5.1.

LeBron wins in rebounding....as well.

Though, T-Mac was a better mid-range shooter, not as much as you think.

LeBron is almost dead-even with Mac in 3s.

Let's not even use win totals.