Is it unreasonable to think that a person can learn defensive schemes and rotations to become a solid defender? I don't think so... I believe it's just less likely for a person to develop offensive skills over defense.
Can Harden's crap defense get better? Sure Can he improve his crap postseason offense? Sure And I hope he does!! It's not about being right. It's about the Rockets winning championships.
Forgot if it was in TV or a podcast, but JVG said he would take the elite offensive talent with bad defense over a defensive juggernaut with bad offense. It was his belief that defense is something that is learned and gets better with age, while offense is something some guys are just born with. No amount of practice can make you an elite offensive player if you weren't born with that ability.
Just have to say something: I cannot believe people, I don't care whether it's JVG or a poster on this board, use words like 'god given talent', 'natural ability', 'something you are born with'. This is all nonsense, a high percentage of what is called 'talent' or 'ability' is learned, practiced and helped along by determination (mental). Sure, some people have the body / muscles to be a faster or more athletic basketball player. This is why I could give Paul George the edge, because he has the mental edge over Harden. It just doesn't seem that Harden has that mentality, just like Tracy McGrade and hundreds of others, to become great and practice to become good on both sides of the court.
So Paul George shooting 40% on 2s and and taking almost 18 shots A game to get 20 ppg. Is elite offense? Chandler parsons can do that my friend and he's no elite offensive player. Or do u take the guy who can get 26 ppg on 16 shots shooting 46% on 2s? There good offense and then theirs elite offense and pg if good harden ins elite.
I love how you completely ignore him carrying the thunder in the WCF against the spurs and Turning around a 0-2 deficit. But you wouldn't care about that. Or the fact that almost all the shots harden missed in the Portland series we're shots he made all season. I wouldn't exactly call that an offensive flaw in playoff basketball. If it continues as he gets older then maybe he's mentally weak. But refuse to right off a player that is 24 and 2 yrs into being the lead guy. Not to mention a player who most likely makes 1st or. 2nd team all nba this yr. but your right hustunna james harden sucks we need to trade him ASAP for Paul George. Btw I'm sure Larry bird would send pg packing before he could hang up the phone with money if a harden for George swap was ever on the table.
Speaking of ignore.... have you ever ignored he was the 3rd option? Of course you have. And the very next series he sucked? You missed post #1922. Go read it. Despite Harden's postseason suckage, I still lean Harden>George slightly. There definitely isn't a whopping gap though.
You don't expect anyone to believe that do you? I don't care how good he is on defense, the guy can't dribble or make plays for others. Hell he has a tough enough time getting off clean looks for himself. He's a jump shooter that's it and frankly not a very good one. You can go on with me all you want but from a pure talent standpoint harden is on a different level than PG. Harden draws fouls he gets to the paint and scores he hits jumpers from All over he shoots the 3 just about the same as PG and he gets you 6 plus assist a game with 5 rebounds. Numbers and the eye test just don't back it up that these players are close I. Talent Other than the media saying so. I know harden can get better on defense because it's the easiest part of the game to teach. I also know that while PG will no doubt get better. He's never going to be the playmaker that harden is and for that reason alone is why IMO PG is not a true number one option superstar and won't ever be one. You can question if harden is one or not but you can't question that he has the numbers and the style of play to be that kind of player. If you really watch as much basketball as you say how can you honestly tell me that Paul George can be that player. Ever? He's just not that kind of player. I don't know if harden will get there or not bit typically all the best players to have played the game had atleast 2 season before 25 or 25ppg with 5 and 5 and that's exactly what harden has done. While PG is yet to produce even one seaso. As good.
You can "learn" schemes, but people really underrate bball IQ. Many players just never get it. Learning a scheme one of many aspects of defence. Just as there is offensive instinct, there is a lot of defensive instinct as well. In addition, there is many attributes that can determine defensive potential, similar to offense. To counter your argument, can a person not improve his shot or post game? Look at Dwight: there was development of a post game. Ppat added a hook shot the year he was traded, and increased his range to the 3pt line. Kobe and Lebron added a post game to expand their offense. There are many things a player can do to become a "solid" offensive option as well. But there are also limiting factors that can affect your defensive potential. Jeremy Lin, for example, will probably not become a plus defender in his career; he does not have the necessary lateral quickness. What if a player has a bad bball IQ? Drew Gooden is a perfect example. Yes, a key element of the draft is offensive potential, but what can make or break their career is defence. You can't teach heart; you can't teach high intelligence; you can't teach lateral ability; you can't teach effort. In addition, I don't think that the Pbev signing, or Omer Asik signing, was offensive-oriented. This is because most elite offensive talents have the ability to play defence. KD has the length, Lebron has, well, everything, etc. Heck, even Harden and Melo have the ability to play defence at a high level. JVG is betting on his ability to motivate the elite offensive talent to play both sides, and he was successful with Tmac. If you look at the all-defensive team, there is a significant amount of defensive talent that was also exceptional offensive players. What do you mean by "born with that ability"?
Defense is more than just schemes, it's taking time to watch film and read the scouting report on your enemy.
I'd rather build my team around Harden than Paul George, as it would be easier to find a poor man's Paul George.
I don't disagree with you; a player can absolutely learn more offensive moves as their careers progress. I'm just saying, in my opinion, that I'd rather start with a good offensive player over a defensive one. I believe Harden has the talent to be a good defender, but currently as we can all acknowledge, he needs to mature and take it upon himself to be a better player. It's just a question of whether he has that fire in him; I guess we'll wait and see.
If so, I don't see why we were debating previously, as many times, there is a "good d, but better o" scenario.
Yes players could improve both offensively and defensively. My thing is Coaching plays a big part in defensive improvement. For example, you bring back Coach Tib and watch the vast improvement defensively. You see coach Tib really preaches defense and makes sure defense is practiced on regular. Coaches like McHale and Mike D'Antoni sparingly enforces defense. They are more focused on the offensive side of the ball. But as fas as who is better Harden gets the edge slightly.
What do you mean by "born with that ability"?[/QUOTE] Correct me if in wrong but I think he means by "born with the ability" in that a player like Howard for instance is improving a lot by working hard and wanting To be better. With that said he'll never have the fluidity of Hakeem or the passing skills of Yao Ming. It's just not going to happen. That's the feel for the game I think he's talking about, that some players have some don't. Paul George might get better at dribbling his shot might improve he might get better at attacking the hoop but one thing I know won't change is his court vision. You can't practice becoming a playmaker you either possess this skill at an early age and improve as the years go on or you don't have the "ability". We see it in pgs all the time. You can see which ones are playmakers (rondo, cp3,Nash)and which ones bring the ball up and give it to the real playmakers. (Chalmers, pat bev, fisher) I agree that hard work and dedication ( lol I sound like Floyd mayweather ) can be applied to any skill on the basketball court either offense or defense. A player can learn schemes figure out when to rotate when not to. But a player will never learn how to become a playmaker those guys just see the play develop before they actually happen they have that certain "feel" for the game that most ppl don't have. Really it's called being a superstar we all can watch the games and judge who the best players on each team is without knowing any of their names. Theirs just a feel even us fans get when watching some of these players and IMO harden has the "it" factor it now comes down to how hungry he is to be the best. He has the tools and the talent along with elite sz for his position to. It only be the best sg but the best guard period and also the 3rd beat player in there game.
Coaching is the most important part of defense, the good schemes can hide bad defenders. It almost feels like Mchale has a go out there and play mentality with defense, which is just awful. If Golden state used that, you'd watch Curry get broken down quarter after quarter after quarter, if Dallas used that, Dirk would have been exposed continually for the last decade. Thib loses Deng and replaces him with Dunleavy and their defense stays much the same. If a player has a lateral quickness weakness in a matchup, make sure he's directed to always get beaten to the same side, Dwight's a good enough defender provided he knows where the player is going to be coming from.
I couldn't disagree more. You said it yourself. Some people are born faster, stronger, taller, smarter. And yes, you can improve on some traits with training, practice and hard work. But the gifts you have naturally give you an advantage. It's what you do with those gifts that can make you great. I saw it time and time again when I was teaching music. I had students that had ridiculous natural talent. They could pick up almost any instrument and just play it. They didn't have to practice to be better than the other kids. Unfortunately that natural ability can lead to poor habits. Learning that they didn't have to develop practice skills and the desire to be better can be a negative in the long run (sound like any Rocket that we like to debate all the time?). The key is teaching these kids that they have the chance to be something special if they work at it. You have to show them that natural ability can only take you so far, then work ethic and desire become key. And on the flip side of the coin, we have the kids with average or little natural talent. They loved music. They practiced hours every day. They tried their little hearts out. And the kid with the natural ability still kicked their tails in try outs and performances. It's totally unfair but it is what it is. I can relate. I worked really hard in athletics in high school and college. I was an all state middle school athlete, a decent high school athlete, and a below average college athlete. It had little to do with work ethic and everything to do with my physical talent ceiling. When you get the unique combination of ridiculous natural talent, desire to win bordering on psychosis, and work ethic of a madman is when you get your Jordans, Bryants, etc.
Talent and innate ability absolutely exists. Some people are born faster, able to jump higher, have better dynamic vision, ect. That said, talent is largely useless without hard work and dedication.
Points taken, thanks for sharing this. I acknowledge that people have different DNA and therefore can have a certain strength like easier development of muscles, stay ripped despite eating like crazy (Maxwell eating burgers and not working out during the summer and still in perfect shape comes to mind or ability to become an athlete. Still I think the whole 'natural' ability, gift or talent is something that can be developed quite early. Have you seen that youtube video of that small kidd dribbling two basketballs like crazy. That is not because he was born with that talent. His father probably gave him a basketball since birth and started to have him develop his skills very early. Same goes with music. Have you seen the amazing talent kids have in China / Japan? Little kids playing instruments like they have done it for 80 years. Hard work and development early on can do wonders. Also, it has been proven that with music if you play it while they are in the womb and start to have children work with instruments and expose them to a lot of music, they will develop that talent. The key word is develop.
